Y DNA – Family Tree DNA vs Ancestry

Posted on August 14, 2012 by Roberta Estes

I’m regularly asked about a comparison between the Y DNA products of Family Tree DNA and Ancestry.com.

Update: Ancestry no longer has Y DNA testing, but Family Tree DNA does and this article still provides a good overview.

The price changes periodically at both companies, and as far as I’m concerned, the more compelling purchase criteria are features and functions, not price. The prices are usually relatively close.

Marker Results

At Family Tree DNA and at Ancestry, marker results are displayed for the person who tested. Ancestry tests either 33 or 46 markers. Family Tree DNA tests 12, 25, 37, 67 or 111 markers.

Family Tree DNA results are above. Ancestry, below.

Haplogroup Maps

At Ancestry, the map, haplogroup description and results are all on one page, shown above, while at Family Tree DNA, they are displayed on separate pages. At Family Tree DNA, the map is interactive.

A second Haplogroup tab at Family Tree DNA also provides frequencies worldwide for the haplogroup. Ancestry doesn’t provide anything similar.

Frequency Map

Matches

Both companies, of course, provide a list of matches.

At Family Tree DNA, above, your matches have real e-mail addresses that you access by clicking on the little envelope. You don’t have to contact them through a messaging system. The TIP calculations provide time to the Most Recent Common Ancestor and allows you to modify that calculation with known genealogical information. We discussed the MRCA function and compared the calculations between Family Tree DNA and Ancestry in the blog posting, “What Does MCRA Really Mean?”.

One of the must useful features is the Most Distant Ancestor field, which allows you to see at a glance if any of these matches share an ancestor with you, or in the geography of your ancestors.

Family Tree DNA has a privacy option, which allows your match to be shown, but no details. You can directly attach a Gedcom file that is available only to your matches.

At Ancestry, your actual marker values are displayed compared with people you match, so you can see which markers you do and don’t match. Non-matches are highlighted. However, not all markers are displayed on the page. You have to scroll right at the bottom of the page to see the rest. All people at Ancestry are encouraged to upload thier family tree, and attach their results to the tree. That tree then becomes a part of Ancestry.com, although you can make it private.

Haplogroups are not displayed and neither are SNPs because Ancestry doesn’t test SNPs. This means that they estimate all of their haplogroups, and occasionally incorrectly. Complex haplogroup names, such as R1b1a2a1a1a4, mean those results have been hand entered by someone who tested elsewhere. Ancestry can’t estimate to that level.

Manual Entry Issues at Ancestry

Furthermore, the results displayed, when entered by hand by people who tested at other companies often contain “clerical mutations,” otherwise known at typos. This is the old GIGO concept – Garbage In, Garbage Out. People identified with an asterisk have entered their results by hand, including a haplogroup name.

There are 4 markers that must be adjusted at Ancestry for Family Tree DNA results to be equivalent to the same markers at Ancestry. In other words, the two companies “score” these markers differently. Initially, you had to know this and compensate. Then, Ancestry changed and began to do the compensation for you when you enter the results. That was a definite improvement, but the result is that you have no idea if the results you are looking at are equalized or not. The message here is that if you see an “*”, know to beware.

Furthermore, you can only have one set of results attached to your account, at least if you hand enter, and therefore if you want to check on matches for different relatives in your family, you need to edit the results from one person’s results to another. In this case, you must do the compensation math on the markers yourself. Fortunately, the list of markers is on the edit page, assuming people read, understand what to do and remember to adjust those values.

Advanced Matching

Family Tree DNA, in their last major update, added an advanced matching feature across their products that includes surname, partial name, project and combined tests matching. This is an extremely powerful tool. Ancestry has nothing similar.

Haplotrees

Family Tree DNA provides a haplotree. Ancestry doesn’t test SNPs, so they have nothing to put on a haplotree. Family Tree DNA guarantees that if they can’t predict your haplogroup by an exact match at 12 markers to another individual who has been SNP tested, that they will SNP test, for free, until they can successfully tell you at least which base haplogroup you are a member of. This test is called the Backbone test. They seldom need to do this anymore, but I do still occasionally see the Backbone test where the individual’s marker values are very unusual.

You can tell that Ancestry has spent a lot of time making their user interface very friendly, and it is. Some would refer to this as “dumbed down,” but regardless, haplotrees, SNPs, changing haplogroup names and all of that tends to be confusing, certainly to the novice. Most of Ancestry’s customers fall into the novice category. Ancestry’s marketing is directed at the impulse “feel good” purchase. They do a good job catering to that marketspace and that group of consumers doesn’t have any idea what a SNP is, or that there is anything more than what Ancestry provides them.

Ancestry doesn’t have a haplotree and their customers don’t miss it, at least not until someone who has tested at Family Tree DNA gets ahold of them, they need something more or want to join a project at Family Tree DNA. Fortunately, now Family Tree DNA does provide an option for Ancestry customers to “transfer in” for a reduced fee.

Haplogroup Origins

Haplogroup Origins is very powerful tool provided by Family Tree DNA and often overlooked. Haplogroup origins are haplogroup matches, based on STR markers, that point the direction to where your ancestors lived before surnames. This is invaluable in determining general locations for people trying to find their ancestors in Europe.

Ancestral Origins

Ancestral Origins is another extremely powerful tool provided by Family Tree DNA that is similar to haplogroup origins, but brings the match time closer to the present. These are the locations of the oldest ancestors of people that match you on STR markers, not based on your haplogroup. Again, extremely useful for people trying to find their ancestor’s location overseas and/or trying to verify a particular ethnicity, such as Jewish.

Matches Maps

Both Ancestry and Family Tree DNA offer a map of matches, but they are significantly different.

At Ancestry, the matches shown on the map are the current addresses of the people who tested, NOT their oldest ancestor. Personally, I find this a bit creepy, as I really don’t want someone knowing where I live. Having said that, it’s a wonderful tool for adoptees and I use this feature constantly looking for location matches for my adoptee clients. Most recently, I found someone’s closest match genetically in the city where they were born. That’s a big clue. Matches are sorted in closest to furthest order and you can click on either the person icon or the name and see additional information on the map, such as the location, the name and how close the match is.

At Family Tree DNA, the matches shown are the locations of the oldest ancestors of the people you match. This is really much more relevant to genealogists in general. In addition, a match list can be displayed, and by clicking on either the person’s name, or a balloon, additional information is displayed including an e-mail option. This is an extremely powerful tool for someone looking for geographic matches or trying to determine which matches to contact.

SNP Map

Family Tree DNA has a new SNP mapping feature. Of course, Ancestry doesn’t have this, because they don’t test SNPs. This new mapping feature allows you to map clusters of SNPS. I selected clusters of 10 of R1a1-M198 just as an example.

This can be beneficial in tracking groups of haplogroup ancestors. As haplogroups connect with more modern times, this tool will become more powerful and useful to the typical genealogist.

Print Certificates and Maps

Family Tree DNA has a print option for certificates and maps. While this isn’t particularly important to me, it is to many.

Projects

At Family Tree DNA, aside from personal matches, much of the power of matching comes through projects. Volunteer administrators lovingly manage these and many, many discoveries have been made through projects.

Family Tree DNA provides oversight so that projects aren’t created willy-nilly, and projects fall into 3 main categories, surname, haplogroup and geographic projects.

Surname projects are obvious, as are haplogroup projects. Occasionally there are multiples in these categories. For example, there is a Miller project and then I have a Miller-Brethren project for the Miller families who were of the Brethren faith.

Haplogroup projects often have subgroups studying particular SNPs or large subgroups, such as haplogroup E1b1a (Sub-Saharan Africa) and E1b1b (North Africa/Mediterranean), which are different projects.

Geographic projects are pretty much anything else. My Cumberland Gap projects are there, both y-line and mitochondrial DNA, the Lost Colony projects, the Acadian project, Native American projects, the Bahamas and Puerto Rican projects, and many more. Many times academic researchers and population geneticists work with these project administrators.

Projects are absolutely wonderful resources providing the opportunity to work with others who have similar interests to learn more about the people within your group. For example, the Cumberland Gap group has provided a venue for genetic matching within the region, but we also offer a Yahoo group for project members where we share cultural and historical aspects of the Cumberland Gap area as well as genealogy.

While it is beyond the scope of this Y DNA comparison, Family Tree DNA also provides many tools to project administrators.

Family Tree DNA provides a search feature for projects that includes key words and surnames, plus an alphabetical browse, by category, shown above. They also display a list of projects that include the surname of the person who is signed on and doing the search. I was signed on when I did the above search, and you can see that there are 4 projects that include the surname Estes in their project profile, Estes, Jester and the Cumberland Gap Y-line and mitochondrial DNA projects.

In addition, Family Tree DNA provides a public webpage for every project that includes participant grouping capabilities, shown below, colorized matches within groups, and mapping.

Project maps can display the oldest ancestor location of an entire project or of any selected subgroup.

This is a very powerful tool, especially in relation to haplogroup maps.

At Ancestry, shown below, you can search for either groups or individual surnames. The surname search is a useful tool. I searched for Estes. I can see that people by that surname have tested and their haplogroup, but I can’t see their results. Of course, if I enter Estes marker results, by process of elimination, I can figure out who I do and don’t match from this list. To contact these people, I have to go through Ancestry’s message service. My experience has been that few Ancestry contact requests are successful.

Unfortunately, at Ancestry, everyone is encouraged to “create a group.” Anyone can join whether they have DNA tested or not. It doesn’t matter if their DNA test is for a genealogy line relevant to the project, meaning paternal or direct maternal, and there is no oversight ability or control. In essence, these are individual or family study groups, not DNA projects, per se.

I entered the surname Moore, one of my brick walls. The number of “Moore” groups was overwhelming. It’s clear from looking at these that many people have created what I would term personal family study groups, but sorting through them and trying to find something useful is overwhelming. There were 25 groups including several who were listed as the Moore Paternal surname group, with 1, 2 or 3 participants in each. The oversight provided at Family Tree DNA avoids this type of mess.

Compare this to the projects at Family Tree DNA that list the surname Moore. Additionally, Family Tree DNA tells me that 824 people with the surname of Moore have tested. Of those, 454 are in the Moore Worldwide project. Yep, if I’m a male Moore, that’s where I’d want to be – where I can compare to other Moore lines.

Other Resources

On the Other Resources tab, Family Tree DNA has a list of several other resources, all free. In addition, you can download a free e-book about how to interpret your results, or you can order a customized Personal DNA Report. None of these additional items are available at Ancestry.

Populating DNA up Trees

One feature that Ancestry has that Family Tree DNA does not is the ability to populate the DNA up a tree. Obvious pitfalls are twofold. First, the DNA may not be relevant to people up the tree if a nonparental event has occurred, also known as an undocumented adoption.

Second, the genealogy may not be correct and you’ve just genetically populated the wrong people. Not everyone views this “tree population” as a positive feature. Many view this with a very high level of trepidation, understanding that the many incorrect trees at Ancestry will eventually also have incorrect genetic information as part of that family record. There is also concern that in time, this will actually discourage DNA testing because people will find these DNA populated trees and believe that their line has already been tested, so they will think they don’t need to test.

Comparison Chart

As an easy comparison, I’ve created the following chart to compare the Y-line DNA testing and products.

Feature	Family Tree DNA	Ancestry
Marker Results	Yes, 12, 25, 36, 67 or 111 markers	Yes, 33 or 46 markers
Migration Map	Yes – interactive	Yes
Haplogroup Description	Yes	Yes
Haplogroup Frequency Map	Yes	No
SNP testing	Yes, Individual SNPs, Deep Clade and Geno 2.0	No
Matching	Yes, most distant ancestor listed, direct e-mail	Yes, marker comparison provided
Haplotree	Yes, includes free SNP Backbone test if haplogroup cannot be predicted	No
Advanced Matching	Yes, by surname, partial name, project and varying test combinations	No, but does have general surname search for participants
Ancestral Origins	Yes	No
Haplogroup Origins	Yes	No
Matches Map	Yes, location of oldest ancestors	Yes, location of person who took the test
SNP Map	Yes	No
Print Certificates and Maps	Yes	No
Projects	Yes, tools and oversight provided, surname, haplogroup and geographic, includes web page, groups and maps	Yes, encourages everyone to create project, lack of organization and tools
Additional Resources	Personal DNA Reports, free e-book, Multiple FAQs, Forum, Newsletter, Genographic Project, Glossary, Ysearch, Mitosearch, News, Release Notes, Academic papers, Annual Administrator’s Conference, Mitochondrial DNA testing (full sequence), Autosomal DNA testing (with data download), Walk the Y (WTY)	General FAQ, Mitochondrial DNA testing (no full sequence), Autosomal DNA testing (no data download), normal Ancestry subscription services, “ability” to populate DNA up trees

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Disclosure

I receive a small contribution when you click on some of the links to vendors in my articles. This does NOT increase the price you pay but helps me to keep the lights on and this informational blog free for everyone. Please click on the links in the articles or to the vendors below if you are purchasing products or DNA testing.

Thank you so much.

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To SNP or not to SNP??

Posted on August 10, 2012 by Roberta Estes

I received an e-mail the other day from someone who had been asked to take a SNP test by their project administrator. What they asked me was, “Why would I want to do this and what’s in it for me?” Seems like a simple enough question, but not exactly.

The quick answers are twofold:

It further defines your haplogroup and…
You can participate in science research.

Unfortunately, this just leads to the next question, “Why do I care?”

So here’s the longer but more accurate answer….and by the way…when you’re done reading this, you’ll understand why it matters, personally, to you. And you’ll probably want to order a SNP test or two.

I’m going to use the haplogroup E project for an example. I’m a co-administrator of the project, along with two other individuals, one of which is a population geneticist. I am very, very grateful for Aaron’s interest in the project.

As project administrators, we feel that it’s our responsibility to group people within the project in a way that is both helpful to them and to scientific research. Fortunately, these goals do not conflict and are one and the same.

The haplogroup E1b1a, which is the core haplogroup of this project, as opposed to brother haplogroup E1b1b, is defined by a series of SNPs. Each letter and number after the initial E is defined by a SNP. So each additional letter or number makes the resulting haplogroup more specific. More specific means more granular in both geography and time when the haplogroup, and subgroups, were born.

Haplogroup E, itself, is defined by L339 and 10 more “equivalent” SNPS
E1 is defined by P147
E1b is defined by P177
E1b1 is defined by P179 and 4 more equivalent SNPs
E1b1a is defined by M2 and 9 more equivalent SNPs

In the haplotree, there was a big split between E1b1a, which is Sub-Saharan African and E1b1b, which is North African/Mediterranean, known colloquially as the Berber haplogroup. Therefore, two separate projects make sense.

The project is officially known as the E1b1a-M2 project. M2 is what is known at the “terminal SNP,” meaning the one furthest down the tree that defines E1b1a.

On the haplotree above, you can see the lighter green M2+ SNP that was tested to confirm that this person was indeed in haplogroup E1b1a. The plus means that they have the SNP. If they didn’t have this SNP, then they would not be in this subgroup of haplogroup E1b1.

The orange SNPs listed below the E1b1a branch, on the haplotree above, are all of the SNPs available to be tested to see if you are in those haplogroup subgroups. Want to know which branch is yours? If so, then now you know why you’d want to test.

Let’s look at the project map to see why you might want to determine a subhaplogroup.

The map below shows the entire E1b1a project with all of the participants.

Do you see all of those people in the Americas? Well, those are participants who are people of African heritage who very much would like to see their balloon in the African continent, not on the shores of the Americas. The only way to determine where these people originated in Africa is to do the research that will connect the dots genetically, because we can’t do it via paper records, to where their ancestors lived in Africa.

In order to do this, people need to take SNP tests for specific markers so that their results can be correlated with African groups. Tests for individual SNPs are only $29 each, so really quite inexpensive for the benefit you, and science, receive.

Aaron, the haplogroup E1b1a geneticist, has divided the participants into groups, and using his expertise, has determined which individual SNPs are the most beneficial. A Deep Clade test is $139, but generally, Aaron can tell which subgroup people are likely to fall into, so he requests just a SNP or two. You can test a lot of individual SNPS for $139. Additionally, sometimes Family Tree DNA makes SNPs available for research testing that are not on the price list yet, and the only way to get these tested is via what is called “boutique testing,” where you order one at a time, through the haplogroup administrator.

When Aaron sees someone who would benefit from this kind of test, he e-mails the person and asks them if they will take the specific SNP test.

Let’s look at an example.

We have a very, very interesting situation where we have a man whose ancestral line is confirmed to be from Austria. This is highly unusual, as E1b1a is very clearly African and is seldom to never found in Europe ancestrally. However, this genealogy is well documented.

You can see on the above map that Aaron has grouped a number of people together whose DNA has similar characteristics, meaning groups and values of markers. He wants all of these people to take specific SNP tests, which you can see on the drop down box as the title of the group. This is standard practice for haplogroup project administrators.

On the map, you can see where these participants’ oldest ancestors are found. One in Austria, one in Africa and the rest in the Americas who are brick walled.

This map shows project participants. In order to look at where the research papers place these people ancestrally using genetic information, we need to use a different tool.

We don’t know the African location origins of this particular group of people, which is why these SNP tests are so critically important. We need to match them in research data bases with other people who have these same SNPs.

Let’s look at the haplogroup origins of someone within a different subgroup of E1b1a who is also brickwalled in the US. Shown below is the Haplgroup Origins chart from their personal page, showing their matches.

You can see that several haplogroup matches, progressively more detailed (E1b1a to E1b1a7 to E1b1a7a3), have origins in Africa. The more detailed your SNP test, the more detailed your haplogroup, the more detailed and specific your location can and will be, if not today, then eventually.

You can see above that this person, who has only tested to the E1b1a level, matches an E1b1a7a3 individual who is from the Bakola Pygmy tribe in Cameroon. If this person were to take the SNP tests, they would know if they too are haplogroup E1b1a7a3. If so, there is a very good possibility they too are a descendant of the Bakola Pygmy tribe in Cameroon. This is extremely powerful information for someone searching for their roots – the Holy Grail of genetic genealogy. But they will never know if they don’t SNP test, either by individual SNPs ($29 or $39 each) or the Geno 2.0 test ($199).

If you’re lucky, the research on your particular SNP location in Africa has already been done. But you’re never too late to this party, because as new SNPs are discovered, there are always new opportunities to test. That’s the ying and the yang of pushing the frontiers of science.

We are REALLY fortunate, because we live in a time where we can be participants in scientific discovery that not only helps us find your our own ancestors, but helps many others who are brick walled with no other hope of finding their ancestral homeland. This doesn’t just apply to the African haplogroups, but to all haplogroups. This is exactly how the revolutionary discoveries of the past few months and years that led to the new Geno 2.0 test came about. One person and one SNP test at a time.

Want to find your ancestors AND make science happen??? SNP test!

This is a companion article to Where is my Haplogroup From?

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Disclosure

Thank you so much.

DNA Purchases and Free Transfers

Genealogy Services

Genealogy Research

Legacy Tree Genealogists for genealogy research

Where is my Haplogroup From?

Posted on August 6, 2012 by Roberta Estes

This is a very common question. The answer can be as simple as a Wiki search, or a little more complex, but offering a much more personal answer.

First, if you have not joined a haplogroup project relevant to your haplogroup, do so. This applies to both Y-line and mitochondrial results.

We discussed how to do this in the “What Project do I Join?” post.

Joining haplogroup projects does two things. First, it provides you with a group of “like people,” who have common ancestors with yours. Second, it provides the project administrators with DNA sequences to work with. It’s that “working with” part that will play an important part in the answer to this question.

If you’ve already looked at Wiki, and you’re ready for more, you can take a look at your personal page. At Family Tree DNA, both the Y-line and mtDNA have a haplogroup Migration Map option.

Clicking on this option shows you the migration map for your haplogroup.

Clicking on the Haplotree option, and scrolling to the bottom, you’ll see a link for the Haplogroup FAQ, right under the “about my haplogroup” verbiage. The FAQ holds lots of information about haplogroups, how they are determined and such.

For Ancestry customers, your haplogroup description is at the top of the “View Results” page.

Clicking on the “learn more” provides you with an additional paragraph or so.

Note: Ancestry no longer has Y or mitochondrial DNA testing at all.

Ancestry does not have haplogroup projects, SNP testing, or additional haplogroup tools, so the rest of this will refer only to Family Tree DNA clients.

Let’s now turn to the haplogroup projects. The most personal answer to the question, “where did my haplogroup come from” will come from within haplogroup projects.

How haplogroup administrators handle projects varies, based on their level of involvement, interest and experience of the administrator or administrators. And remember, we are all volunteers. Having said that, these people do an amazing and incredible job.

Family Tree DNA provides a mapping function, for free, along with their other project administration tools, for haplogroup projects. If a project doesn’t have a map available, then it’s because the administrator chose not to opt for the map when setting up the project.

I’m using the haplogroup R1a1a project as an example. It’s well organized, grouped by haplogroup and many people fall into this haplogroup. The various options for viewing haplogroup projects are listed on the top bar within the project.

Clicking on the “classic” options shows you the various groups that the administrator has created, and how they have grouped individuals within the project.

By searching for you kit number, you can find the group you’ve been assigned to. Note that if the project extends over more than one display page, you may need to search on subsequent pages as well. You can also change the number of results displayed per page in the “page size” box at the top.

Depending on the project, administrators group participants differently. Some projects group people by geographic location. Most Y-line projects group them by haplogroup subgroup, or SNP, plus groups of STR markers within SNP groups. The SNP (single nucleotide polymorphism) is the location that is tested to see if you are a member of a haplogroup, or haplogroup subgroup. Your terminal SNP is the one furthest down on the tree that provides you with the most resolution as to where your ancestors were located. Your individual markers further refine SNP groupings.

Let’s look at the maps.

Projects have the option of displaying the location of the oldest ancestor. Of course, this means that each participant will need to have entered the geographic location of their oldest ancestor on the Migrations Maps tab on their personal page. This is critically important for haplogroup project mapping, because without the locations of oldest ancestors, there is no way for your results to appear on the map.

To see all of the project participants on a map, click on “Map” and then in the dropdown box, select “all.”

In the R1a1a project, the “all” selection shows the following map. This is the answer to the question “where did my haplogroup come from.”

However, a much more personal answer to that question lies in the subgroups. The haplogroup R1a1a project has grouped participants by SNPs and has given the resulting clusters identification names. Let’s assume that your kit is listed in the group A1 which they’ve defined as Z283+, M458+, L260+ and named the “West Slavic Subcluster ‘A’” – all listed in the group title for this subgroup on the map selection. The numbers, Z283+ indicate the SNP name and the plus or minus indicates that the people in the group have tested that location, and if they have it (+) or not (-). If the administrator does not clearly define how they’ve identified the subgroups, then you’ll have to contact them directly. Every administrator runs their project differently.

The map for this subgroup clearly shows where these participants’ ancestors are found. If you are in this group, this means that these people share a common haplogroup ancestor with you, some hundreds to thousands of years ago, depending on the haplogroup subgroup age. This is the personal level of the answer to the question “where did my haplogroup come from.”