“My ancestors are in my soul. I can’t get them out of my mind.”
Bennett Greenspan
“And yes, I brake for cemeteries.”
Bennett Greenspan gave an incredibly interesting presentation at the 15th International Genetic Genealogy Conference held by FamilyTreeDNA in November 2023. Since his retirement in January 2021, he has been able to focus on his genealogy. Once a genealogist, always a genealogist.
Bennett said some things I hadn’t thought about, and now I’m viewing Y-DNA matches with a different perspective – based on how he’s using his results.
Ever since I met him, Bennett’s focus has been to use genetics to unravel his complex Jewish heritage.
The questions that drive Bennett are the same ones that motivate most genealogists:
- Who are we?
- Where did we come from?
- Where were we before we were there?
- How did my ancestors get there?
Bennett “lost his family lines” before the mid-1800s due to his Jewish heritage, exacerbated in the 1930s by the devastation wrought by the Holocaust. Families were either killed or scattered to survive. It has been through Y-DNA in particular that he has been able to establish unquestionable and confirmed connections with other Greenspan men, sometimes by similar but different surnames, like Green, and sometimes with other surnames entirely.
When Bennett first started down this path, he tested more than 62 men before actually finding one a decade later that matched his Y-DNA. Bennet commented that it was “a little frustrating.”
Persistence is the key, and sometimes, genealogy is a waiting game, but that’s small comfort to genealogists during that unproductive waiting period.
Eventually, Bennett reassembled his family, at least somewhat, but it was a long journey. Here’s Bennett’s incredible story, including surprises, as he tells it.
Bennett discovered genealogy at age 12 and, like many genealogists, created a pedigree chart by talking to his family.
I love the mark-outs. How many of us still have our first chart with its edits?
This is the young Bennett Greenspan, whose interest in genealogy would one day unlock secrets for all of us!
It was a long way from a decade with no matches to finding his genetic kin in Ukraine.
The Big Y-700 Time Tree shows Bennett’s lineage in Ukraine, but stepping back in time, some descendants of his ancestors are found in adjacent locations.
Bennett was passionately discussing his matches on the time tree and in the Greenspan project, so I visited the Greenspan DNA Project, where the earliest known ancestors of Bennett’s Big Y matches are shown on the Group Time Tree.
Bennett’s closest matches are shown as descendants of haplogroup J-ZS1718. He has additional matches who are not in the Greenspan project. Since this is the Group Time Tree, it only displays the people in that project, along with their earliest known ancestors, Isaac and Usher Greenspan.
12-Marker Matches
Bennett never fails to amaze me. He said something very important and profound about 12-marker matches that I really hadn’t thought about – at least not this way.
As a community, we are often guilty of discounting 12-marker matches, those that don’t match us at 25-markers or above, or with different surnames, as “too far back in time” or otherwise irrelevant. I always look at the names and earliest known ancestors of 12-marker matches, because that person may have tested back in the day when fewer markers were available. But if I don’t recognize something, I move on.
However, Bennett said that, ”Y-12 matches reach back to a common ancestor. 12-marker matches are not a quirk. They are related to you, just further back in time. You share a common ancestor with them, someplace. They may be more distant, but they are still your close matches.”
I’ve been in too much of a hurry for a quick win, and ignoring the (apparently not so) obvious.
Determining when and where their ancestors lived also paves the way to discover yours. Your Y-DNA and theirs were in the same place at the same time.
Of Bennett’s 171 12-marker matches, 107 have upgraded to the Big Y, probably mostly due to his encouragement. This benefits both them and Bennett by fleshing out the history of that entire group of men, including how they got to where they are found in the first available records. The Time Tree shows when Big Y testers shared a common ancestor, and based on Earliest Known Ancestor (EKA) locations, where. This provides further information about the lives of ancestors before contemporary records – in other words – people that we can never identify by name. It’s a window into ancestors before surnames.
Bennett notes that testers need to know their ancestral village or location to be most useful within the project, and of course, they need to enter their EKA information. Location information is how the Migration Map, Matches Map, and Discover tools, including the Time Tree, are built.
What Happened in Spain?
Bennett’s ancestors and those of his 12-marker matches are found in Spain, and as Bennett says, “One son stayed and one left about the year 296.”
While we have no idea of their names, based on the Time Tree combined with the cluster of earliest known ancestors, we know that they were in Spain, and when.
Their family story is revealed in the bifurcation of the tree found beneath haplogroup J-L823, formed about 296 CE. One line stayed in Spain, and Bennett’s line migrated to eastern Europe where that man’s descendants, including Bennett’s family, are found in the Russian Federation, Belarus, Poland, Lithuania, Sweden, Slovakia, Ukraine, Germany, Romania, the Czech Republic, and other eastern European locations. The closer to you in the tree and in time, the more relevant to your more recent ancestral story.
However, Bennett’s deeper ancestry, the migration of his ancestors to Spain, was only revealed by testing those more distantly related men. Those same men could well have been ignored entirely because they only matched at 12 markers.
According to Bennett, “Y-12 markers are important because these are the men most closely related to you in a database of 1 million men.”
How incredibly profound. How much have I been cavalierly overlooking?
How does this actually apply to Bennett’s results?
Bennett’s Spanish Matches
Bennett has the following STR panel matches who indicate that their EKA are from Spain. You can see that they match Bennett on a variety of panels.
- X = yes, match
- No = no match
- Blank = not tested at that level.
In the Big Y GD column, the genetic distance (GD) is displayed as 15/660 where 15 is the number of mismatches, or the cumulative genetic distance ABOVE the 111 panel, and 660 is the number of STR markers above 111 with results.
The Big Y-500 test guaranteed a minimum of 500 total STR markers, and the Big Y-700 guarantees a minimum of 700 total STR markers, plus multiple scans of the balance of the Y chromosome for SNP mutations that define haplogroups. Testers don’t receive the same number of markers because the scan technology sometimes doesn’t read a specific location.
| Tester | 12 | 25 | 37 | 67 | 111 | Big Y Test | Big Y GD | Big Y Match | Haplogroup |
| AA | X | X | X | No | No | Yes | 15/660 | No | J-FTD8826 |
| DT | X | X | No | No | X | Yes | 17/664 | No | J-FTE50318 |
| JG | X | X | No | No | |||||
| AR | No | No | X | X | No | No | |||
| ELR | X | X | X | No | No | ||||
| EL | X | X | Yes | 17/666 | No | J-FTE50318 | |||
| GC | X | X | X | X | No | No | |||
| JC | X | No | No | ||||||
| JLG | X | X | No | No | No | Yes | 14/662 | No | J-FTE23540 |
| MF | X | X | No | X | No | Yes | 15/665 | No | J-FTD91126 |
| MT | X | X | X | X | No | No | |||
| BE | X | X | X | X | X | Yes | 20/664 | No | J-BY1795 |
| DR | X | X | X | X | X | Yes | 16/660 | No | J-FTC87344 |
| EC | X | X | X | X | X | Yes | 15/665 | No | J-FTC87344 |
| GM | X | X | No | No | No | Yes | 16/650 | No | J-FTD28153 |
| GM | X | X | X | X | No | Yes | 17/664 | No | J-FTD11019 |
| LS | X | X | No | No | No | Yes | 18/666 | No | J-FTD28153 |
| NE | X | X | X | X | X | Yes | 23/597 | No | J-BY1795 |
| NC | X | No | No | ||||||
| RR | X | X | X | No | X | Yes | 22/659 | No | J-BY1795 |
| TT | X | X | X | X | X | Yes | 16/647 | No | J-FTC87344 |
| XG | X | X | X | No | No | Yes | 17/523 | No | J-BY167283 |
| JA | X | X | No | No | No | Yes | 15/646 | No | J-FTD11019 |
Of those 23 Spanish matches, sixteen have upgraded to Big Y tests, 14 of which are Big Y-700s, resulting in nine different haplogroups, all of which are descendants of Haplogroup J-L823. How cool is that?
The “Nos” in the Big Y Match Column aren’t mistakes. That’s right – none of these men match Bennett on the Big Y test, meaning they had more than a 30 mutation difference between them and Bennett on the Big Y test.
At first glance, you’d think that Bennett would have been disappointed, but that’s not the case at all! In fact, it was the information provided by these distant Spanish matches that provided Bennett with the information that his line had split sometime around the year 296 CE, with one branch remaining in Spain and his branch migrating to Eastern Europe, where he has lots of matches.
DNA Plus History
What was happening in Spain or the Iberian peninsula that involved the Jewish people about that time? Historical records exist of Jews living in that region before the fall of the Second Temple in about 70 CE, including records of Jews being expelled from Rome in 139 for their “corrupting influence.”
Furthermore, the Ancient DNA Connections for haplogroup J-L823, the most recent common ancestor (MRCA) for all of those branches, includes connections to multiple burials from:
- Lebanon
- Iran
- Rome (from 1-400 CE)
- Turkey
- Jordan
Clearly, Bennett’s ancestor was in the Iberian peninsula around or before 296 CE. One branch stayed, winding up in Spain, and one headed for Europe.
Without these matches, some who didn’t match above the 12 or 25 marker level, how would Bennett have EVER known that his Jewish ancestors left the Middle East for Spain in the early years? How would he have known they migrated from Spain to Eastern Europe, and how would he have known that his line did not migrate directly from the Levant to Eastern Europe in the 9th century?
Big Y matches are typically within about 1500 years, but non-matches are still INCREDIBLY valuable. Without them, you can’t completely assemble your family story.
I noticed on the Time Tree that in Bennett’s Eastern European line, one of his ancestor’s brother lineages includes the Katzenellenbogen Rabbinic Lineage derived from ancient DNA samples.
Bennett’s successes have resulted from contacting his matches and encouraging upgrades. So how did he do it? What’s the magic sauce?
Contacting Matches
How to contact matches successfully is a question I see often. In fact, FamilyTreeDNA recently wrote about that in an article, here.
Bennett’s methodology for contacting his matches to encourage an upgrade is that he sends an email explaining why he’s encouraging them to upgrade, followed by a 2nd email three days later.
Bennett tells the recipient that we are at an inflection point in time. “It’s winter, the wind is blowing hard, and many of the leaves are gone.”
In other words, we need to cast the net wider and capture what we can, while we can. Unfortunately, many early testers have died, and with them, chapters of history are perishing.
Collaboration is key. In addition to encouraging upgrades, Bennett also offers Zoom calls to these groups of men to explain the results if they are interested.
What a GREAT idea! I need to begin offering that as well.
Upgrade Request
Bennett reaches out to his matches at various levels, but he expects his closer STR matches, meaning at the 67 and 111 marker level with the fewest mismatches, to match him on a Big Y-700 test and connect someplace between 300-600 years ago, which helps everyone flesh out their tree.
Bennett’s email:
Hello <name>,
Since you have already made a sizable investment in your Y-DNA, you now know that we come from the dominant male Middle Eastern group (Haplogroup J) of men who <subject here>.
What’s really neat is that our Y-DNA has recently been found in an archaeological site in Northwestern Jordan dated to about 4200 years ago. I know this because I upgraded to the Big Y, which tests SNPs, looking at several million locations on the Y chromosome of each man.
One academic customer recently compared this new technology as the difference between looking into space with binoculars versus the Hubble Telescope.
I don’t know if you are familiar with your list of matches at the highest level you’ve tested for, either Y-67 or Y-111. If you are, you should recognize my name and the names of others who have taken the Big Y test.
You’ll see what you’ll gain by letting me upgrade your test for you and determining whether you are related to my line – probably between about 200 years and 500 years.
This might be the second time that I have written to you on this matter; can I presume if I don’t hear from you that you’re not really interested in the Y-DNA subject anymore?
Can I run the test so that I can see how closely we are related – at my expense? (Of course, you get to see how closely related we are, too).
Please reply to me and say “yes.” You don’t even have to put a 🙂 if you don’t want to.
I started this company and this industry over 20 years ago. I predict that you will be happy with the history of YOU that this upgrade will uncover.
Best,
Bennett Greenspan
As you can see, this email can easily be personalized further and adapted to matches at the 37, 25, and 12 marker levels – or even Family Finder matches, now that intermediate-range haplogroups are being reported.
What’s Next?
I’m going back to every one of the kits I sponsored or that represent descendants of one of my ancestors to review their matches again – focusing not just on the closest matches with common surnames, but also on locations – and specifically at lower matching levels. I’ll also be checking their Family Finder matches for male surname matches, or similar surnames.
As is evident from Bennett’s tests, an entire mine of diamonds is out there, just waiting to be unearthed by a Big Y test.
And to think that some people have been advising people to ignore 12-marker matches out-of-hand because they are “entirely irrelevant.” They aren’t – for two reasons.
- First, some early testers only tested to that level
- Second, because of the deeper history that Big Y tests from those matches will uncover
You can view your Y-DNA matches, upgrade your own Y-DNA test, or order a Big Y-700 test if you haven’t yet tested by clicking here. What’s your next step?
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A trivia note about Bennett and 12 markers…..
Bennett and his brother are only 11 out of 12. A reminder to not to be overly strict in interpreting results.
Good eye!
INSPIRING! Thank you for sharing Bennett’s words. Now it is definitely worth a fresh look at all my “male” lines. Again, thank you!
For over a decade I have been helping a friend discover who his father’s father was. My friend tested at 37 markers then upgraded to 111 markers. He only has a single match – at 12 markers 1 step. The match has also tested at 111 markers. So I analysed my friend’s first 12 markers that reveal they are a highly unusual pattern of unusual STRs that is so far unique.
Therefore I assume that I only need to test potential candidates at 12 markers. Then if there is ever a decent match on those first 12 markers, upgrade their test to 111 markers.
I would not assume that. STR markers are known to be unstable. We have Big Y matches that aren’t STR matches.
My response could be as long as your post… I will try to limit it!
I am a woman born to two German people who met in Canada. Surprisingly it seems that both of them had distant Jewish ancestry. And relevant matches indicate that this ancestry was both Ashkenazi and Sephardic. What are the chances? (Maybe greater than many would presume… for a German population?) To complicate things, I believe it’s more recent on one paternal branch and quite distant on two maternal branches – so three direct lines but not recent and, therefore, more difficult to puzzle out; confirm with relevant records. (Plus I was not raised by my father, who returned to Germany. Another challenge… his DNA definitely gives me the majority of my AJ matches.)
All these hints of Jewish ancestry on different lines have perplexed and challenged me, for a few years (sometimes lists of shared matches “cross over”). By the way, I have a personal theory that people with little mysteries like that, in the backgrounds of their respective families, are drawn to each other… even if they are unaware. It seems to have happened a few times on my tree!
Anyway… I don’t have any close known family who will or can do a DNA test and share the results publicly. So I was very excited when a 3rd cousin tested at 23andMe. I already knew exactly how we are related and was aware of our shared family history that goes back to the 19th century – surname Holzapfel. So now I had Y chromosome info about a known male direct ancestor. Admittedly, this info is very basic at 23andMe, but I can see that my 3rd cousin is J-L283 also! And I can trace this male line back through time to the Harz Mountains. I have a sense that it might go back to Hesse (hours of research and document searching await me). Three of my known Holzapfels, with this J-L283 Y chromosome, would qualify as “asterisks” in 20th century history. I am quite intrigued by this line and will follow through one day.)
Anyway… it also appears that my 3rd cousin has a bit of Ashkenazi Jewish ancestry… based not on J-L283 (which I did not associate really with Jewish ancestry) but on DNA matches and various ethnicity estimates. This is from scrutinizing all his kits (23andMe, Ancestry and MyHeritage) as well as those of his father and a half brother (only at MyHeritage unfortunately).
(I think I have another match in Australia who is a direct descendant, with that same Y chromosome, most likely. He’s at Ancestry, with an upload to MH. Not too surprisingly, he’s not interested in testing to identify his Y chromosome or my theory that two generations back there was misattributed paternity. I believe he’s my half 2nd cousin.)
So… it was extremely interesting to read about Mr. Greenspan’s personal research and learn more about J-L283.
(Incidentally, after reading your post, I also reflected on how I look at my mtDNA matches. I have two “0” distance mtDNA matches, who come from British stock. Meanwhile, my direct female ancestor was a Frisian from the 1700’s. With more distant mtDNA matches I can see a LOT of Eastern Europeans but not exclusively. “Girl DNA” travelled around too, through the centuries.)
Back to the Y chromosome, it was my maternal grandmother who had a father with what must have been J-L283. That’s my direct connection there. I am 99.99999999% certain of that… thanks to my 3rd cousin’s testing.
Incidentally, Holzapfel is one of those many, many, many Germanic surnames that Austrian and German (more in the southern regions) and Jewish people have.
Thanks for your article!
How can I contact Bennett Greenspan? What is his email or Facebook page?
He doesn’t do social media. I would suggest contacting support at FamilyTreeDNA via email including why you wish to contact him. They can forward it to him.
Finally have you recognizing that yDNA 12 marker matches are useful😊👏👏👏
But this article made me realize I should contact my matches that did not have the Ingalls surname should be encouraged to have the Big Y test. May never get it done. Running out of time. Many of my non-Ingalls matches email addresses have changed or they have died.
For the record, I have never said they weren’t useful. I just never appreciated their full potential before. The Big Y is a game changer because it tests more stable types of mutations and because it scans the majority of the Y chromosome. STR matches are introductions!
Sorry, did not mean to indicate you thought the 12 marker test is useless. That was all I had available when I started researching my Ingalls matches. It took a lot of paper trail genealogy research but as you have probably seen in my Facebook posts I was able to find my connection to all the exact 12 marker Ingalls matches to me. So many people “agree” that the 12 marker matches are useless. Hoping you will help convince people on Facebook they are wrong about that!
Feel free to post this article wherever you see that. Maybe I should write a similar article titled “12 Marker Matches Matter”😁
This article further reaffirms my opinion that amateur “experts” on the BIG Y Facebook page need to stop peddling the notion that Y12 or 25 matches are useless. Thanks for sharing; Bennett has done an incredible job with his project.
I read your post with interest and went back to the Y-Line analysis you did for me back in 2017, in which you wrote about my several Y-12 same-surname matches. We all recently upgraded to Y-700 which returned the same-surname matches, in addition to the terminal haplogroups of R-BY90505 and R-Y109652, which establishes a common ancestor born in 1407. So yes, Y-12 markers are important.
12-matches! I wish! I have had my son tested and paid for an upgrade on my paternal side and neither of them show any matches even after several years, but… I had not taken a closer look at all the other tools that are now available in the FT-DNA for Y-tester. There are many different analyses that show the paths to the haplogroup, the number of descendants and where they are, and my favorite: “ancient connections”. This shows the present in several burial ground of ancient people with the same ancestor. The closest ones for my son who is Italian are from Rome. But I found out that both my French ancestor and my late husband’s had ancestors buried in the same cemetery (Bardonecchia cemetery, Turin, Italy). No matches based on STR, but a lot of information from the haplogroups.
If you have not looked at your file recently, I would say that you could have nice surprises…
I have a French line with no matches. Of course, given that DNA testing is illegal there, I’m not terribly surprised. I upgraded to the Big Y so I’d have something to work with. I suspect you did the same thing. A different French line connected with an ancient burial in Metz. I jumped for joy!
One of my closest lower testing level matches is in France. He and a couple other people asked me to do the Big Y so I did. The guy in France said all his ancestors back forever lived in France. I do not understand the test results but hope it helps someone else.
Sorry if I don’t quite follow this aspect: “In Bennett’s Big Y GD column, the genetic distance (GD) is displayed 15/660 where 15 is the number of mismatches, or the cumulative genetic distance ABOVE the 111 panel, and 660 is the number of STR markers above 111 with results.” I clearly find the mismatches in results, but what is meant by “ABOVE the 111 panel”? And where would I find the “number of STR markers with results”. Comparing the GD once determined… isn’t it simply the fewer mismatches, the closer the relatedness? I seem to be missing something… however, my opinion is that Bennett’s presentation and your overview are so enlightening, like gold. Thank you!
What I meant is that 15 is the number of mismatches just in that panel and does not include the mismatches in 111 panel and below. In the 111 panel, the number of mismatches is cumulative 12-111.
Oh now I see. Thank you! I am correct in stating (for my project members) that the fewer of these mismatches (between Big-Y matching members) in same terminal haplogroup, the likely closer the relatedness/relationship? (However, I’ll have to translate that to another language for my non-domestic members !) Thank you as always.
Generally, yes, but not always. The Big Y is definitive though.
This is just the post I have needed to get me out of the genie doldrums! I would love to share my quest. I am not a scientist and dna is hard to remember but my first goal was to rule out my descent from the Spencer family. I know, why would I? But I knew it was wrong due to my elderly family genealogist who had done the work. And the DNA supported it. So I felt encouraged.
The ancestor (Gabriel Bobo/Bobeau/Baubau/ect.;1700 immigrant) though is w/o a single match (of my first cousin Thomas Wm.
Bobo) at FTdna37 and absolutely none until FTdna12 where there are lots but no matching surnames.
You are so right about the mistake we make disregarding these distant cousins. Thank you for the encouragement. I belong to DAR and got to meet Bennett Greenspan the year DAR started to collect dna from members and their relatives. I could have ask him something helpful but I didn’t have the questions at that early date. So I said, “are you related to Alan Greenspan?”, and he had to say he didn’t know because it hadn’t been shared with him. So he had the same difficulty as we all do.
Thank you for this really meaningful information which I will study further. I really appreciate the boost.
What a timely article, in my case, especially. Just a few hours before seeing your email, I was looking through some Y tests I manage, along with my own. I was specificly looking at Y-25 results, because in my email, before I got to yours, I had notices that two of those managed tests had new Y-DNA25 matches.
My first thought was, “Well, I’ll take a quick look, just to make sure it’s the same match for these two kits. But, I don’t really need to, because I have Big Y-700 for both of them, and that tells me all I need to know about this line.”
So, I did take a look at both of them, and while I was there, I started perusing through both sets of matches. In doing so, I saw other multiples of matching surnames in both sets of matches, as well as my own. That triggered more thoughts. “What can I do with these names. What do they mean? Why did we match at this level, and not continue further on at higher levels? Is there any way they can be of use?”
WOW!! Didn’t your blog answer those questions? A whole new vista opens up!
Doug Colquitt
Hi. I have second cousins named Greenspon. Don’t know their Y-DNA line though. I have Ashkenazi ancestry with Sephardic ancestry from way back.