Phebe Crumley’s Mother Really IS Lydia Brown (c1781-c1830) – 52 Ancestors #318

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This day took its sweet time arriving!

And yes, I’ve used DNA evidence along with every other shred of traditional evidence that I could dig up about either Lydia Brown or her husband, William Crumley. I’ve been trying to prove that the William Crumley who was the father of Phebe (Phoebe) Crumley either WAS or WAS NOT the William Crumley that married Elizabeth “Betsy” Johnson in October of 1817, just months before Phebe’s birth on March 24, 1818, as recorded on her gravestone.

Of course, we all know that gravestones can be wrong.

Mitochondrial DNA testing told me that the mitochondrial DNA of the daughter, Clarissa, born on October 10th, 1817 to William Crumley and his wife, just a few months before some William Crumley married Betsy Johnson, matched the mitochondrial DNA of Phebe.

For good measure, the mitochondrial DNA of the daughter, Belinda “Melinda” Crumley born on April 1, 1820, also matches both Clarissa and Phebe. But again, we know that birth dates have been known to be wrong by several years – not to mention that there’s a possibility that the two women, Lydia Brown and Elizabeth “Betsy” Johnson, could have been related. Nothing is ever simple, it seems.

A group of families including Crumley, Johnson, Cooper and Brown had traveled together for at least a couple of generations and we are unable to document these lines very well.

I even analyzed the handwriting of the various William Crumleys, and of course, there were several.

If you’d like to read the articles about this extremely difficult family to unravel, here’s a list along with a cheat sheet of who was whom. Yes, you need a dance card to keep track of this family.

Phebe’s father was William Crumley (the third) and either Lydia Brown or Elizabeth “Betsy” Johnson was her mother.

This William is the grandfather to Phebe and appears to be who married Elizabeth “Betsy” Johnson. He was the father of William Crumley (the third.)

William Crumley the third married Lydia Brown. The question has always been whether Lydia Brown died in 1817 after the birth of Clarissa, followed by William marrying Elizabeth “Betsy” Johnson who gave birth to Phebe a few months later.

So, was Lydia dead, or wasn’t she?

Mitochondrial DNA results of the three daughters of William Crumley all match each other. I wish those early records hadn’t been so sparse. Unfortunately, the Hancock County, TN records have twice burned.

I think I’ve solved it – finally – based on the signatures of William Crumley.

Jotham Brown is the father of Lydia Brown.

Of course, if Phebe’s mother was NOT Lydia Brown, then Lydia’s parents don’t matter in my tree.

Angst

I’ve spent years going through twister-like perturbations trying to identify which William Crumley married Betsy Johnson. Whichever woman gave birth to Phebe in 1818 was my ancestor. Obviously, which William Crumley married Betsey Johnson makes a huge difference in my tree. I mean, I think I have it nailed down, but with this family, I’m never sure. Given all that, I’m sure you’ll understand my angst when an e-mail arrived this week.

When I saw the topic was this family again, I didn’t know whether to be hopeful or cringe.

Marlene, an unpaid volunteer was attempting to help a lady prove that Jotham Brown, Lydia Brown’s father, was a patriot through the Frederick County, VA tax lists.

Marlene, who is very nice, explained:

This is relevant because the revenue from 1782 and 1783 taxes were partly used to fund supplies to support the Revolution, so [Jotham Brown] appearing on the tax list may be considered patriotic service.

Do you have a copy of or a link to this 1782 tax list, in which Jotham Brown appears?

Any assistance you are able and willing to provide is VERY much appreciated!

When I wrote Jotham Brown’s story, I was only looking to place him in Frederick County. It never occurred to me that Jotham might be determined to be a Patriot in the DAR sense because he was on a tax list.

I didn’t need the original tax list, so I utilized a transcribed version of the 1782 Virginia census, provided by another researcher. Marlene reports that Binns Genealogy doesn’t show him on their lists.

A cousin found the Frederick County personal property tax lists for 1782, here, and there is no Jotham Brown in either 1782 or 1783 on the actual tax list. I read page by page.

A couple of days later, I heard from Marlene again about Phebe’s brother, Aaron Crumley.

Aaron

I just read your 29 Jun 2019 blog about County Formation Petitions and found it very interesting. Your conclusions about which William Crumley married who and when made me wonder if you have looked at the marriage records of Aaron F. Crumley. Since the lady I’m trying to help descends from Aaron F. Crumley [and his 2nd wife] I’ve spent some time on this and note that when Aaron married for the 4th time, at age 63 [2 May 1886], the record in Miami County, Kansas indicated that his parents were William Crumley and [no first name listed] Brown. This leads me to the conclusion that Lydia Brown lived until at least 1823 when Aaron F. Crumley was born, so it must have been a different William Crumley who married Betsy Johnson.

Glory be. Marlene had just found what neither I, nor any of the other Crumley researchers had been able to find for decades. And, she very kindly shared. Thank you Marlene!

Truthfully, I didn’t know that Aaron had married a fourth time.

I showed Aaron’s birth occurring about 1821. The 1850 census Hancock County, TN shows him as age 29, so born in 1821. Other census records show him born in 1822, 1823, or 1824. Regardless of whether Aaron was born in 1821 or as late as 1824, all those years are after the births of all three daughters whose mitochondrial DNA matches each other, including Phebe who was born in 1818.

Aaron’s marriage record shows exactly what Marlene said.

Aaron’s age on May 2, 1886, was given, by him, as age 63, meaning he was born in 1823 or perhaps 1822 if he had not yet had his birthday for 1886. His Civil War draft registration from 1863 shows the same information.

Aaron married Mary Murry, age 32, which makes me wonder if he has previously unknown children from this fourth marriage. Mary’s FindAGrave entry, plus additional information indicates that yes, they did have children.

In 1913, Mary Crumley, widow of Aaron F, is living in Portland Oregon with Fred, Frank, and J. Harvey Crumley.

In 1909, in Spokane, we find Frank, Fred, and James K, a blacksmith all living at 2024 Augusta Avenue.

I do think Mary did have children, because the 1910 census shows Mary Crumley living in Spokane, Washington, age 54, widowed, married for 6 years, had 4 children, 2 living. She is living with sons Frank Crumley and Fred Crumley, ages 24 and 21, both born in Kansas.

Mary’s 1910 census entry, of course, tells us that Aaron Crumley died in 1892 at age 69.

While Aaron’s information is interesting, the real gold nugget here, for me, is that marriage entry for Aaron F. Crumley where he gives his mother’s maiden name as Brown.

Not Johnson.

Of course, this makes me wonder why her first name wasn’t recorded as Lydia. Other mothers in these records had first names. But then again, some mothers had no name.

Clearly, Aaron provided this information himself, because no one else would have been applying for his marriage license. He knew who his mother was – this is first-hand information. Thank goodness the clerk wrote SOMETHING down.

It’s a Wrap

We now have genetic evidence with three mitochondrial DNA tests, evidence based on the various William Crumleys’ locations and signatures, and finally, first-person evidence with Aaron providing the maiden name of his mother.

We now know that Lydia Brown lived at least past Aaron’s birth. Aaron appears to be the last child born, or at least the last one we know about.

From this information, we can estimate Lydia’s birth year.

If Aaron was born in 1822 and Lydia was age 41, that would put her birth about 1781.

We know Lydia married in 1806, so she would have been perhaps 21 at the time, putting her birth at about 1785.

I would say it’s safe to bracket her birth between 1781 and 1785, give or take another year or so in either direction.

We know for a fact, based on the 1850 census that says William had been married within the year, that William did marry in 1849 or 1850 before the census to a woman named Pya or Pequa.

The 1830 and 1840 census are inconclusive, although William is shown with a female the right age to be Lydia in 1830. In 1840, William, age 50-60 has no female his own age in the household, but is living with a female aged 60-70 which could be his step-mother, Betsy Johnson, after his father’s death.

The best evidence we have is that Lydia Brown lived beyond Aaron’s birth and probably beyond 1830, passing away sometime between 1830 and 1840 in Claiborne County, TN, likely living near what is now Turner Hollow Road, near Littleton Brooks and Eli Davis. We know from previous research that was where William lived.

One of William’s daughters married a Davis, one married a Walker from down Mulberry Gap Road, and Phebe married a Vannoy who lived nearby. Clarissa and William both went back to Greene County, TN, and married. The children seem to have scattered a bit, possibly after their mother’s death – so maybe Lydia’s death was closer to 1830 than 1840.

Crumley Cemetery

Today, there’s a Crumley cemetery on Burchett Hollow Road in Hancock County, the portion that was previously Claiborne, although Findagrave doesn’t show a mapped location.

Several years ago, my cousin provided a map of the Josiah Ramsey land division. Eli Davis lived near what today seems to be the Burchett Hollow land.

Overlaying that map with this map, today, and following Burchett Hollow to the end, I can see something that very much looks like a fenced cemetery with a few headstones.

The children of Aaron’s brother, John, and their descendants are buried in the Crumley Cemetery.

In the 1840 census, William and his son, John Crumley, are living side by side, between Eli Davis and Littleton Brooks.

I would wager that this land was indeed where the Crumley family lived – and where Lydia died when she was about 50 years old, then buried in a long-lost grave, probably marked with a fieldstone.

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7 thoughts on “Phebe Crumley’s Mother Really IS Lydia Brown (c1781-c1830) – 52 Ancestors #318”

  1. You’re in my neighborhood now!. I have a Brown connection through the Louthan and
    maybe another family – with roots in Wythe County, VA.

    Reply ↓

      • I watched a documentary a few years back, about how video games are made to be addictive, slashing the same monster countless time in hope to get the 0.1% odds for a special item, of which you need 10 to make each part a fancy set of armor.

        I realised at that moment that genealogy is the same, rereading countless times the same documents, in hope we missed something, trying to find new sources, new translations, better scans, etc. But when we nail it, it feel so good. ^_^

        Reply ↓

  3. My husband descends from Aaron F Crumley through his daughter Sarah Alice Crumley Dodd. I appreciate the diligent work you do on this family.

    Cathy Bonds Jackson

    Reply ↓

  4. Happy dance! I remember how I felt when Ancestry DNA dropped the clue I needed for my “alien abduction” ancestor, one Margaret E Smith, right in my lap. It turned out that she was born in Jay County, Indiana, but wound up back in Greene County Ohio where her family had lived before after she was completely orphaned.

    Reply ↓

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