Sometimes we’ve been doing genetic genealogy for so long we forget what it’s like to be new. I’m reminded, sometimes humorously, by some of the questions I receive.
When I do DNA Reports for clients, each person receives a form to complete with a few questions designed to give them the opportunity to tell me what their testing goals are and to ask any questions they might have. One woman asked, “Can you tell me about my psychogroup?”
I thought that psychogroup was particularly appropriate for a cluster of genealogists, especially genetic genealogists, but decided I had better let that one go.
Then there was the person who wanted to know about their hologroup. I wondered if I needed 3D glasses for that one.
Someone else wondered about their helpgroup. I couldn’t help but think of introducing myself, “Hello, my name is Roberta and I’m a member of haplogroup J.” Kinda gives new meaning to “what’s your sign?”
Then there was the person who though it was a Biblical reference, Holygroup and wanted to know how they connected to Biblical folks. Well, we do talk about Y-line Adam and Mitochondrial Eve, so why wouldn’t someone ask that?
My favorite, though is the person who gave this reason for leaving a haplogroup project, “not my glopo.” Hey, at least they realized that, as opposed to the person who called me a member of the KKK for suggesting that they did not belong in a particular project. I found that to be particularly humorous, given my ethnic mix, heritage and family.
But today, when my cousin asked me if a haplogroup follows the mitochondrial DNA, I decided it was time to talk about what a haplogroup is, a little history, and why we use them. And Shanen, thanks for asking!
Think of a haplogroup as an ancestral clan, a large family, like the Celts, or Vikings. These would be larger than Native American tribes, encompassing members of many tribes. There are two male Native American haplogroups that include all Native American males. There are a few more African clans, or haplogroups, but not many.
There are clans for the Y chromosome, which is of course tested by the Y DNA test at Family Tree DNA and generally follows the paternal surname up and down the tree. Y DNA is passed from father to son, only, through the Y chromosome which only males possess.
There are also clans for mitochondrial DNA, tested by the mtDNA tests at Family Tree DNA, which follows the direct maternal line up your family tree. This means your mother, her mother, her mother, etc. Woman give their mitochondrial DNA to all of their offspring, males and females, but only females pass it on.
You can see the Y-line, paternal (blue) and mitochondrial, maternal (red), lines on the pedigree chart below.
Companies like 23andMe and the Geno 2.0 project provide haplogroups for both Y-line and mitochondrial DNA, but neither of them test personal mutations that allow you to compare your mutations against those of other people for genealogical matches. The regular Y-line and mitochondrial tests at Family Tree DNA do that. In addition, both also provide your haplogroup or clan designation.
A new haplogroup is born when a very specific new mutation occurs. All descendants will carry that mutation. That mutation defines that haplogroup. So if a new haplogroup is born today, we wouldn’t know it was a haplogroup until hundreds or thousands of years later when we see that lots of people have this same mutation from a single individual. As you might imagine, many haplogroups over the ages have died out, but some have been very successful as evidenced by the fact that we are all here today! Roughly half of the European men carry Y haplogroup R and mitochondrial haplogroup H is found in nearly 50% of all Europeans – both descending, respectively, from one single person tens of thousands of years ago.
Since all of humanity, both male and female, sprang initially from Africa, the earliest haplogroups were found there. As some people moved further away and crossed into Asia and Europe, they developed unique mutations that would give rise to the European, Asian and Native American haplogroups we know today. There are 4 main groupings, African, European, Asian and Native American, but there are several subgroups within most of those main groups, except for Native Americans who only have two male haplogroups.
So in essence, haplogroups are a pedigree chart of the clans of humanity. Family Tree DNA displays a haplogroup chart with the main haplogroups shown on everyone’s personal page for Y-line DNA. They were simply named alphabetically with no connection to a word. So no, A is not A because it’s African, even though it happens to be. N is not Native American. E is not European. You get the drift. Any resemblance is purely coincidental.
Your clan, in this example, haplogroup I, is shown with an arrow. Every clan, male and female, has subclans, often known as subclades for Y DNA or subgroups for mitochondrial DNA. To see the various subgroups of I, click on the tab and voila, there they are, the subgroups of haplogroup I. Yours is the lowest one on the tree that is green, in this case I2b1a1.
Because of the dramatic new number of haplogroups recently discovered, future versions of the haplotree will be moving away from the letter based names like I2b1a1 and will only use the terminal, or lowest branch, SNP to identify a haplogroup. In this case, that would be L126 or L137 which are equivalent SNPs. So in the future this person’s haplogroup will be called I-L126 instead of I2b1a1 because L126 will never change, but the name I2b1a1 changes every time a new upstream haplogroup is discovered between the root of haplogroup I and I2b1a1 and needs to be inserted into its proper place in the tree.
As we learn more about the subgroups, each one has its own story which is somewhat different than the stories of the other subgroups. Some are evident, such as Jewish clusters, some not so much. Each clan story involves how that haplogroup came to be found where it is today. For example, haplogroup E is African, but within haplogroup E, there are two major divisions with very different stories for their clans. One group is found only in Sub-Saharan African and one is found mostly in the Middle East and the Mediterranean basin and is known colloquially as the Berber haplogroup. We’re still learning about subgroups, and with the Geno 2.0 test, the haplotree is growing exponentially.
Family Tree DNA predicts your clan, or haplogroup, with any Y-DNA test as long as you match exactly at 12 markers to someone who has been SNP tested. SNP testing is what tests for the special haplogroup defining mutations. If you don’t match, they will SNP test you for free to establish your primary haplogroup.
Many people purchase additional SNP tests to further define their Y haplogroup so that they can learn about where their ancestors were, when, and what they were doing. For example, we know that SNP M222 equates to Niall of the 9 Hostages in history. How cool is that to know!
Some years ago, Dr. Doug McDonald assembled this wonderful map of the basic haplogroups of the world. Although we’ve discovered subgroups for each haplogroup, it’s still quite valid. E3b has since been renamed E1b1b and ExE3b means haplogroup E1b1a. RxR1 means haplogroup R except R1a and R1b which have their own legend.
Mitochondrial DNA also has haplogroups, which are clans. On the drawing below, compliments of Dr. Whit Athey, it’s easier to see how the daughter clans arose, were born, and were named. Because of the naming pattern, this looks a little less like a pedigree chart and a little more like stars, planets and moons.
One difference between Y-line DNA and mitochondrial DNA clans is that although they are all currently named alphabetically, the mitochondrial clans have names. That is thanks to Dr. Bryan Sykes who wrote the book, “The Seven Daughters of Eve” published in 2001. For example, he named haplogroup H, Helena because Helena is Greek for light. He told somewhat accurate stories about each clan and although quite scientifically dated now, described the life that each clan would have lived in post-glacial Europe. This book was the first book about DNA to reach the popular reading public, and was a huge success because he humanized science and normal air-breathing humans could relate. I ordered my first mitochondrial DNA test through his company and received one page with a Sunday School gold star on the red dot for haplogroup J.
I was thrilled at the time, but times have changed a lot. Due to advances in research and new subclades being defined, thanks in large part to citizen scientists like you, I now know that I’m haplogroup J1c2f as a result of my full sequence mitochondrial DNA test.
Unlike Y-line DNA, no additional SNP test is required to fully determine your mitochondrial DNA haplogroup. When you take the full mitochondrial sequence test (mtFullSequence) at Family Tree DNA, you receive your most detailed, full haplogroup designation automatically. With the HVR1 (mtDNA) and HVR2 (mtDNAPlus) tests, you receive at least your base haplogroup. The full sequence is required to determine your full haplogroup.
To put this in perspective, think of your mitochondrial DNA as a clock face. There are a total of 16,569 locations in your mitochondrial DNA. The HVR1 test tests the number of locations from 11:55 to noon and the HVR2 test tests the number of locations between noon and 12:05PM. The full sequence test tests the rest, the balance of the 50 minutes of the hour.
Family Tree DNA is the only commercial testing company that offers the full sequence test.
As more discoveries are made for both male and female haplogroups, the subgroup names sometimes change within the clan or main haplogroup because new branches get inserted in the tree as they are discovered.
For example, from a scientific paper, here’s an early version of the haplogroup H mitochondrial phylotree which is what the haplotree is called for mitochondrial DNA.
Here’s a later version.
You wouldn’t even be able to see today’s version, because the print would have to be miniscule to fit it on the page. In Dr. Behar’s paper, “A ‘Copernican’ Reassessment of the Human Mitochondrial DNA Tree from its Root” published in April 2012, the supplemental material records haplogroup H87. Most of those subgroups have subgroups of their own, like you can see above, and those that don’t today soon will as new discoveries are made.
Now that you know what a haplogroup is, there’s a lot you can do with both mitochondrial and Y-line DNA results.
Even if you do nothing more, it’s fun to identify your clan. It’s the only way of extending our genealogy back in time beyond surnames. For me, to connect my last known maternal ancestor, Elisabetha Mehlheimer, born in or near Goppsmannbuhl, Germany around 1800 to the cave paintings in Chauvet, France created about 12,000 years ago was a magical moment, a reach across time through a tenuous umbilical strand allowing me to identify and touch my 12,000 year-old ancestor. In my wildest genealogist dreams, I never dreamed this could or would ever be possible and indeed, it wouldn’t be, were it not for the genetic genealogy tools we have today.
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You deserve an award (Nobel, Pulitzer, Academy, etc) for this very erudite article. Many thanks for your noble efforts. We appreciate you!!
Well, I took the funny part out….so I don’t think it will be academy:) But thank you so much.
Thanks for all the great information you continue to share !!!
Larry Nuckolls
You are most welcome. And thanks for taking the time to say thanks. It means a lot.
I like our patch Larry; Bob O’Neal, 6/77 Arty, & 3/4 Cav, 25th Div – 1967-1968
It’s so nice having cousins like you, Roberta. Your knowledge is greatly appreciated! (So is your patience with ‘newbies’ like me!)
We all started in the same place Shanen:) The best thing about genetic genealogy has been finding my cousins! You are most welcoem!
Awesome Roberta. I keep readiing the info and then forgetting it so was very glad to get this. It is so well written and easier to understand than many things I have read. Thanks so much for the info you share with all of us.
Roberta – Once again – a very nice article about something that I thought I knew well only to find that you tell me several things that I didn’t know (or maybe just forgot). Keep up the great work.
Roberta, thank you so much for such concise, well written and explained article regarding Haplogroups. Once I finally get all my results, I hope to order a personalized report from you. I hope to use this article and your future report in my Powerpoint presentation to my family members later this year.
Paul
Sharing with family is just wonderful. I’ve discovered that if you make it into a story, they are very receptive:)
Roberta – You put this complex situation in a way that is finally starting to make a little sense to me, or maybe it’s just that I’m ready to hear it now. Either way, I thank you for your continued and straight forward efforts to educate us. It’s working, and is appreciated. Dick (Rappleye)
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OMG! In the middle of an already late essay this was a complete godsend. Thank-you for making this so clear, you are an absolute legend.
I too appreciate all your sharing and the easy to understand format. I thought I had a little understanding of haplogroups until I received a r1b1a2a1a1b4 result which matched with three e1b1a results. These three are known 2nd and 3rd cousins to the to the r1b1a… . Are these matches through the mt lineage? R1b1a…mt is l2a1 and the three are all mt l1c2.
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Thanks for your well presented information. I do have a question. My brother and I recently took the Ancestry.com DNA tests. My test results indicated that I was haplogroup I. From the detailed information provided is there a way to determine if I also belong to a subclade or subgroup?
No, you’d have to test at Family Tree DNA for that.
Why?
They are the only testing company that performs those kinds of tests.
Ok, so I got a little lost (ok a LOT lost) with the above. My understanding was that if you have 8 siblings (same mother, same father, 6 male, 2 female) and their descendants got tested (3 male from 2 different siblings) that those 3 males would be of the same haplogroup. (in this case, they came out Q) There is another child, thought to be of this family (same mother and father) but that child was not listed in the father’s Will, and there are other things that only let us assume with preponderance of the evidence that this 9th child (no REAL proof) – and both descendants of this individual are I1. To me, this would say that this 9th person could NOT be of the same mother and father (we know the mother was the surviving widow and later married again) and with no real proof, is likely to be someone unrelated by blood and that the older researchers mistakenly tagged onto this family for lack of better evidence. (I admit its quite possible that the father could be different – affair, rape, etc) There are two descendants of that 9th child (both I1) and another researcher who thought his line was connected to one of the other 8 children who also turned out to be I1, but gave up with trying to connect when the other two tests (from proven lines) came back Q. I guess I need the “simple” answer – can descendants with the same male ancestor in common have 2 different haplogroups? IF they can, is there a layman’s explanation for how they could connect and have both I1 and Q haplogroups. (I don’t think they can, but others think they do and it has me wondering who is correct, me or them and if I’ve misunderstood something, I want to know the correct information.)
The simply answer is no, they cannot have different haplogroups and descend from the same man. Now, having said that, if one was R1b1a2 and one was R1b1a2a, while those look different, it could simply be that they had not tested to the same level – BUT their base haplogroup is the same. Q and I are most definitely NOT the same. Also, the descendants today are of different haplogroups, but you don’t know for sure that the disconnect didn’t happen someplace between the ancestor and the common ancestor of the two I men who tested. So let’s say the I men share a common grandfather. What you do know is that someplace between the grandfather and your genealogical ancestor with 8/9 children, there is a disconnect. What you can say is that based on the DNA of the descendants today, assuming no undocumented adoptions (or other anomalies), the ancestors of these two groups of men is not the same person.
Thank you SO much! (didn’t think I was crazy!) Just have too many men not wanting to listen to the one woman in the group! I understand (very basically) about the variances – R1b2, R1b12a etc – but it boils down to they are still R – and if someone were some other letter, they would not connect to that family. These men think that because some of the various loci (think that’s the right term) are the same numbers (are very close) they still “connect” even though we have a split between I1 and Q. Bless you for checking your email and getting back so quickly!
Here’s an odd one for you …. My family surname is Powell, and FTDNA’s Y-DNA111 test says my brother is T1a (also called T-M70), and he has “several” Y-DNA67 “tight” matches — genetic distance of 1 or 2 on 66/67 or 65/67 chromosomes — and several others with a genetic distance of 3 or 4. FTDNA FF shows that I am a 1st cousin 1x removed atDNA match to my father’s first cousin Evelyn whose Powell mother was the sister of my father’s father. My FF also shows that I am a match to a Robert Powell who is in the R1b1b2 (R-M269) Y-DNA Haplogroup. However, Robert Powell also matches my father’s first cousin Evelyn on chromosomes 5, 6, 11 and 12 — albeit with 1+cM segments. Two of Robert’s common matches also match Evelyn on two chromosomes — again with 1+cM segments. Robert also matches “at least” several of mine and Evelyn’s atDNA matches on various chromosomes with 1+cM segments. Most of my closest male atDNA matches on 23andme (predicted 2nd or 3rd cousins) are in Haplogroup R1b1b2a1a2d or R1b1b2a1a2f* — both subclaves of R1b1b2 (R-M269) — the same group as my FTDNA FF match Robert Powell. My brother’s FTDNA FF results are expected this month.
I’m trying to understand what haplogroups are. I am Belgian and my da’s Flemish and mum’s Black British. Would that mean I have both Germanic and African haplogroups?
You have a mitochondrial haplogroup through your mother’s mitochondrial DNA and a paternal haplogroup (assuming you are male) through your father’s direct paternal line Y chromosome. This article might help you understand. http://dna-explained.com/2012/10/01/4-kinds-of-dna-for-genetic-genealogy/
Dear Mrs Estes, why some Europeans male have slightly difference (Y Hg I*-M170 and R1* include R1a-M17 and R1b-M343) from their Paternal Line?
R1a and R1b are vastly different and those two men would not be from the same paternal line. However, sometimes in the same haplotree branch, one man has tested further down the tree than another. However, they would both be R1b, for example. It’s sometimes difficult to tell because of testing at different levels.
I know when R1a and R1b are different, my point is about the difference about European Y Hg I*-M170 and R*-M207. Y Hg I*-M170 and J*-M304 didn’t share a common ancestors of Y Hg K*-M9 especially Y Hg K2*-M526 while Y Hg R*-M207, R1a-M17 and R1b-M343 have it. Even though the majority of European and Middle Eastern men share a common ancestors from Y Hg F*-M89.
My cousin and I share the same set of grandparents, but we CAN have different haplogroups, both mt and y.
My cousin and I would ONLY be guaranteed to have the same Y-haplogroup if our fathers were both brothers. And we’d only be guaranteed to have the same mt-haplogroup if our mothers were both sisters.
But, as it is my father and his mother who were both descendant from “Grandpa and Grandma,” we very well could have BOTH different y and mt haplogroups. The gender of the intervening generation matters. Y is only passed down from men; MT only from women.
If Grandpa was Q and my cousin’s dad’s dad (his paternal grandpa) was I1, then my cousin would have the I1 marker, despite the fact that he is a legitimate descendant of Grandpa.
It all depends on your line of descent. Males give their Y chromosome (and their haplogroup) to their sons, who give it to their sons. Women give their mtdna (and their haplogroup) to all of their children, but only females pass it on.
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My group is H6a1 so it was very interesting to read this :).
I’m in the same group 🙂
Thank you for a clear presentation. I have a DNA test from 23andme, which resulted in a Ydna haplogroup of o3a3, which is Asian and according to 23andme is representative of my genetic ancestors 500 years ago. This is all fine with the exception that I possess “official” documents (census, legal, etc) dating back to the 1600s to a family living in the southern states and spoke German. Puzzling 🙂
So I wonder if I should be be retested by another DNA firm or perhaps transfer my 12andme to familytreeDNA?
Herb
You might want to ready this article too. http://dna-explained.com/2014/03/24/haplogroup-comparisons-between-family-tree-dna-and-23andme/
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In your haplogroups Map. Just wonder why you reference Scotland and not UK as a whole?
I didn’t draw the maps. But the history of the various parts of the UK is different.
Wow! So interesting, even for someone with NO scientific background, but a fascination with origins. Thank you so much, and I think I’ll take a college class in my retirement to become more knowledgeable.
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Thank you for this article. I do have a question I was hoping you my be able to answer with regard to relatives sharing the same haplogroup. My mother and I are both haplogroup H23 according to 23andme but I also noticed that another, unknown relative that comes up is also H23 and is predicted to be a 3rd/4th cousin. It is possible for someone to truly be a cousin of that close relation and have the same haplogroup? Thank you!
Yes, it’s certainly possible. You might see if your relationship to that person is through your matrilineal line, but it might not be.
H23 originated in 2000BC. Sharing that haplogroup means you have the same great(x160)-grandmother. So, yeah, it is very random.
But, as Roberta sugests, you may ALSO share the same great(x3)-grandmother if you BOTH descended through lines of women from that same grandmother.
I do not know what my YDNA told me after reading over it several times
There are four things to do. First, look at each tab under your Y DNA results. Second, Family Tree DNA has a learning center https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/. Third, there are webinars available for free at https://www.familytreedna.com/learn/ftdna/webinars/
Lastly, I do DNA Reports for people who are interested. You can purchase either through Family Tree DNA or through my website at http://www.dnaxplain.com/shop/features.aspx
”Look at each tab”. I do not see any mention of ‘tab’ in my Y-DNA Certificate
Hello,
Thank you for your article. I am trying to find out if my ancestors come from the Basque Country.
I have two questions concerning this.
1. Can a DNA test be specific enough to locate my ancestors to a single country?
2. I believe our family line that may link us to the Basque Country is through – my mother – her father – his mother and so on. Is it possible to trace my ancestry using mitochondrial DNA knowing that with each generation the link may be from either the maternal or paternal line?
I am female.
Thank you
Depending on the type of test you can sometimes make regional links. Sometimes not. You’ll never know if you don’t test.
Thank you.
Do you have a good recommendation?
It depends on whether you are male or female and which of your lines you are looking to find information about. Here’s an article that may help you. http://dna-explained.com/2012/10/01/4-kinds-of-dna-for-genetic-genealogy/
Apologies, I should have reinstated:
I am female. I believe our family line that may link us to the Basque Country is through – my mother – her father – his mother and so on.
Is it possible to trace my ancestry using mitochondrial DNA knowing that with each generation the link changes from the maternal or paternal line?
Thank you
No, you cannot.
I thought as much but was hoping for a “yes you can by…”
Hopefully in the future.
Thanks again
I know. I’m sorry.
Many thanks for your informative article. I am M53 but as my father and brother have passed on, I am not sure how that would affect my grouping. My father came from Mangalore in South India. I have posted my raw data on open source sites if it can help others, btw. Euphrosene
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Females have one haplogroup designation (mine is K). This may be a silly question but are males designated with one haplogroup or two?
Males have one haplogroup for their Y chromosome, which females don’t have, and an entirely separate and unrelated haplogroup for their mitochondrial DNA, which both males and females have. So men have 2.
Thanks so much for the reply. I am new at this and trying to find explanations that are easy to understand. So, if a male has an autosomal DNA test would it reveal both groups?
Those are different kinds of DNA. 23andMe does give you the base haplogroup, but no details. Read both of these articles. http://dna-explained.com/2012/10/01/4-kinds-of-dna-for-genetic-genealogy/ and http://dna-explained.com/2014/03/24/haplogroup-comparisons-between-family-tree-dna-and-23andme/. Plus you get no matching comparisons with the Y or mtDNA at any vendor other than Family Tree DNA.
This article and commentary have been very helpful 🙂 However, I am still confused. So, when doing a DNA test, the results give you percentages of ethnic groups you descend from. Since the DNA tests are for the direct paternal and direct maternal lines, how does the DNA of your other 2 grandparents play in role in your DNA? Or is it just from the dad’s dad’s ancestors and mom’s mom’s ancestors? Any insight would be much appreciated 😉
There are different tests that yield different results. Take a look at this article. http://dna-explained.com/2012/10/01/4-kinds-of-dna-for-genetic-genealogy/
Did my Ancestry.com shows im native american but I’m wanting to know how I go about finding my Native roots “tribe”?
http://dna-explained.com/2012/12/18/proving-native-american-ancestry-using-dna/
Also: http://dna-explained.com/2015/03/31/finding-your-american-indian-tribe-using-dna/
Hi Roberta, Thanks for taking the time to answer so many questions. My mom recently passed and right before she died she told me that my dad was not my biological father (artificial Insemination). What is the best dna test now to try and figure out my/his past?
Thanks
Steve
I’d start with the Y DNA test and the Family Finder test at Family Tree DNA, and the test from Ancestry.com.
Thanks! Does it matter between the Y67 or Y111. Steve
You can upgrade to the 111 later, but it costs less in total to but it originally. The 111 refined the 67 marker matches, and sometimes matches show up at 111 that you don’t have at lower levels.
Thanks for all your informative articles. I often find myself on your pages.
Question: I tested (Autosomal) at Ancestry…and of course, they do not predict the Haplogroup. I uploaded my RAW data file to http://promethease and received the following: Topic – Haplogroup Y (y-DNA). Does that mean that I am in Haplogroup Y?
As a female, you don’t have a Y haplogroup because you don’t have a Y chromosome. I can’t answer for Promethease – you’ll need to contact them.
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I recently received my DNA test back (I’m female) and found out I was .1% Jewish DNA on my mother’s side. My Dad recently had his DNA test done (we’re both using 23 and me) and nothing Jewish showed up there so clearly it’s on my Mom’s side. How many generations back might a showing of .1% indicate? It’s always been a rumor in the family that we had some Jewish blood and I really embrace that but as a genealogist I’m wondering where to explore where that connection might have occurred. Any guidance you can provide would be most helpful!
.1% is very very low. It could be nothing more than noise or an artifact. If it’s “real” then more than 5 or 6 generations.
Thanks so much for this article! I am studying African haplogroups and your article has helped me alot!
Im trying to find only the relatives on my fathers mothers side of family. In using 23&me dna relatives- if i group all of the mtDNA (u5a1a1) together… All the dna relatives who share that mtDNA- is it safe to assume these are relatives on his mothers side???
No, they could be related hundreds to thousands of years ago. The match you are seeing could be on a completely different line.
I am also of maternal line J as you say you are also. In the report I received it said, for interest sake, so was Richard III, king of England. Does that mean we are of the same haplogroup with him and would he then be considered an ancestor? Thanks. It is somewhat confusing.
Richard, being a male, cannot be your ancestor through mitochondrial DNA, because males don’t pass it on. You can, however share a common mitochondrial ancestor with Richard – but that doesn’t make him your ancestor – at least not through that line.
Do The Genographic Project Geno 2,0 NG offered Maternal DNA test with a same level to FTDNA mtFull Sequence DNA Testing? Because i download My Cousins Geno 2,0 NG and his mtDNA results from SNP 16184T to 16519T (HVR1), SNP 247G to 489C (HVR2), SNP 769G to 15043A (Coding Region). Similar with my mtFull Sequence HVR1: 16147T to 16519C. HVR2: 73G to 537T and Coding Region: 750G to (8281- to 8289-) to 15346A. So, if i want to know my Fathers more spesific mtDNA Haplogroup, it’s enough to upgrade his mtDNA via his Sister with FTDNA mtFull Sequence DNA Test or not? Or am i still need to take an FTDNA mtFull Sequence to know more about my Cousins mtDNA Haplogroups?
I think there are about 3 questions intermingled here. I know you know your family members and who is a cousin to whom, but I don’t. So, I don’t believe that the Geno 2.0 tests the full sequence. I believe it only tests specific markers that allow for haplogroup identification. I know that if you transfer to FTDNA, the only thing that transfers over is the haplogroup designation itself. In order to have all of your locations tested, one would need to take the full sequence at Family Tree DNA. Who you need to test in your family to represent whom is a matter of working through that on your family tree.
Mrs Roberta Estes, if i want to know further about my Fathers more spesific mtDNA Hg M*, likely M7c3c if i saw a lot of FTDNA Participants who have similar Haplogroup with mtDNA Hg M and M7c3c, shall i take an upgrade DNA Testing for my Fathers mtDNA Plus (HVR1 and HVR2) to the highest resolutions Maternal DNA Test like FTDNA mtFull Sequence (HVR1, HVR2 and Coding Region)? Was mtDNA Plus results were still not enough to confirm about my Fathers, my Aunts (my Fathers Sister), My Paternal Grandmothers M7c3c. Can you explain more about the connections with a Southeast Asian, East Asian, Pasific Islander and Madagascar? Compare to My Mothers Sister In Law with an mtDNA Hg M8a3a or M8a2’3 and it’s descendants, mtDNA Hg CZ, C and Z which this M8a were generally associated with a Native Siberian?
Yes, to receive a full haplogroup designation, you must purchase the full sequence. Yes, I do mitochondrial DNA reports for people where they receive a full explanation, or at least as much as we can give them today. Where is your paternal grandmother from? Your mother’s sister-in-law?
My Paternal Grandmother are from Kebumen – Central Java – Indonesia. As a Chinese Indonesian (Fujianese). My Fathers mtDNA Hg M*, perhaps M7c3c if i see my Father and His Sisters matches with anothers FTDNA participans.
My Mothers Sister In Law are from Surabaya. I heard my Aunt’s families lives in Nganjuk – East Java – Indonesia. She told me about her Great Great Grandmothers have a yellow pale skin, prominent nose, slanty eyes, high and prominent cheekbones. Her family have seems have connection from Beijing or Xian Province – China. Her mtDNA Hg M8a3a (Geno 2,0 NG) or M8a2’3 (FTDNA).
Excuse me, what’s the difference method for a Mitochondrial DNA Testing from The Geno 2,0 NG and an FTDNA MtFullSequences? An FTDNA confirm when an MtFullsequence was the highest resolution for the Genealogy DNA especially from my Deep Maternal Sides.
The Geno tests do scans of specific haplogroup locations, where the full sequence looks at the entire mitochondrial and reports all of the mutations.
So, my decisions to take my Cousin’s (Geno 2.0 NG: NGCXJCFEEK – FTDNA: N145194) and My Paternal Aunt’s (FTDNA:479250) Full Mitochondrial Sequences – 16.569 np’s, wasn’t a bad idea at all, Miss Roberta?
Roberta- thanks for the great article. Helped me understand more. My paternal haplogroup really baffles me, as it is C2e1b2, which has only been found in China and Korea, and I am 100% European. Do you know a possible reason why I have this haplogroup?
Eastern Europe was settled by an influx of people from Asia. Think Magyars, Huns, etc.
Cool. But, I hear this subclade is only found in Chinese and Koreans. I did find an article describing a Kurd with the same haplogroup, however.
This is the only place I’ve been able to find any info on it:
https://sites.google.com/site/haplogroupcproject/c-cts3385
Well, obviously not, given where your ancestor is found. We learn in this industry every day.
Do you know and can you tell me about your Maternal Haplogroup? Do you also tested your Maternal Mitochondria DNA Test?
My mitochondrial haplogroup is I. My maternal line is documented going back to Scotland, where maternal haplogroup I is found at frequencies of up to 5%.
Adam, your Maternal Ancestors (mtDNA Hg I – N1) was European and Middle Eastern, but your Paternal Ancestors Y Hg C2e1b2 from C2-M217 was typically Mongolian, The Kazakhs and anothers Native Siberian Y markers. OK Adam, today, where do you lives on? If you lives or have an ancestors in Eastern European like Russia, Poland or Northern Caucasus Mountain, you have a higher changes to have “Mongolian” and “Altaian” Paternal Line even though you don’t have a Mongolian, Chinese and Korean Autosomal World Regional DNA. But yes, your Y DNA are uncommon (but not to surprise) for European Paternal Ancestors. Actually Genghis Khan probably have around 16.000.000 “Grandson” in the world today.
I am a European American of German ancestry. My paternal line goes back to Southwestern Germany.
I wonder why an Australian Aborigines and Native Siberian share a similar Paternal ancestors, Y DNA Hg C*-M130? Even though in ISOGG, they divine an Australian Aborigines and Oceanian Y DNA Hg C1 while Mongolian like Genghis Khan belongs to the Y DNA Hg C2-M217. An average Northeastern Asian Maternal line were belongs to an mtDNA Hg M8, CZ, C, Z, D, G and Q (M Type). So from Uniparental Haplogroups perspective, an Indonesians and Chinese Y DNA Hg O*-M175 and mtDNA Hg R*, R9, F, R11 and B (R Type) are quite distantly related and extremely difference with their neighbours: Papuans, Oceanian, Australian Aborigines in the South and Mongolian, The Kazakh, Ainu Jomon and Tungusic people in the North? I tell these thinks because i saw on Wikipedia when an Indonesian and Chinese Y Hg O were the descendant from Y Hg K2-M526, so do with Native American Y Hg Q*-M242 and European Y Hg R*-M207, R1a and R1b. An Average Southeast Asians have Maternal mtDNA Hg R9, F, B (R Type). Majority of an mtDNA Hg N and R descendants (HV, H, V, JT, J, T, U, K from R*) (Hg I, W, N1, N2, X from N*) today lives in the Western Eurasian and North Africa except B and F (R) and A, X, Y, N9 (N).
Or simply Southeast Asians and Southern Chinese Haplohroups are more closely related with a Western Eurasians rather than an Eastern Eurasians. Dr Miguel Vilar from The Genographic Project also told me when an Asians Y Hg C and O were quite distantly related to each other even though they’re lives in the same regions: Far East Asia or Asia Pasific. It is correct or not? I wait your feedback, thanks! 😃
Thanx for sharing, Roberta.
I really appreciated the explanation!
I learn about my raw data results from FTDNA mtFullSequence DNA Test. Almost all of my DNA positions and mutations are quite similar with an mtDNA Hg B4c2 markers, but i have a missing mutation: A16235G. My DNA was still A – not G (16235A). This is normal or not?
This is a consulting type of question and not one I can answer in this fashion. If you are interested in a Quick Consult, you can purchase one here: http://www.dnaxplain.com/shop/features.aspx
Oh great……,😕 somebody told me: “Bagus, Rojak, Lah” on YouTube after i share my FTDNA Results Kit No: N112762: Y DNA Hg O-M133, mtDNA Hg B4c and around 65% Southeast Asia + 35% Northeast Asia = 100% East Asian. Just sharing………
Yesterday, i received my Paternal Aunt’s an, of course, my Father’s FMS from FTDNA – MtFullSequence. Both of them belongs to Haplogroup M7c3c. Although Her FTDNA FF Autosomal DNA, especially on MyOrigins (Ethnic Groups) was still pending, can i to make sure to the anothers people around me about Her “Southeast Asian – Southern Chinese” deep and pure Maternal Ancient Ancestors (Haplogroup)?
I don’t understand the question.
Can i make sure to the another else about my Father’s and His Sister’s Deep Maternal Ancestors – Mitochondrial DNA Hg M7c3c is strongly associated with a Southern Chinese, Mainland Southeast Asian and Island Southeast Asian people? Not a Northern Han Chinese and a Northern Chinese Minorities (Native Siberian).
I belong to the T2b24a subtype Can you explain what this actually means
This is part of what I do in the Personalized DNA Reports. Each haplogroup has its own story. For each haplogroup, meaning T, in this case, each branch on the tree is indicated by a letter or number. In your case, you are on a branch 4 down from the original haplogroup T.
Thank you for reply I am looking for mothers BF any advice I have been tested and I have uploaded my DNA to GEDMATCH I have just purchased a test today for my mum so hopefully I can get closer to finding this man.
How do i get a haplo dna test? I took the ancestry dna and am 54% native 8% blk n 32 European among other. But what puzzled me is my sister took same dna and came out 2% asian and 4% blk and 57% native.. How is this so?
Haplogroup testing is done through Y DNA testing, which is done at Family Tree DNA. This article may help you understand the various kinds of testing. https://dna-explained.com/2012/10/01/4-kinds-of-dna-for-genetic-genealogy/
As for the differences in the ethnicity of you and your sibling, this article will help explain that. https://dna-explained.com/2016/02/10/ethnicity-testing-a-conundrum/
Thank you Rhonda . Information appreciated.
I have a technical question. I’ve been trying to trace my family tree and have had my genome analyzed by two labs. The first lab was thru Family Tree DNA and it connected me to many families all named “Lee” which has no known connection to my family surname: “Shirley” I was concerned about contamination so I used the second lab. Their database is smaller, so again I connected with no “Shirley”… BUT they determined I was part of haplogroup RM198 whereas the first lab determined I was part of RM417. Is it even possible to be part of two haplogroups? What is the likeliest cause of the two groups being identified as mine? Appreciate any clue you can offer.
Will Shirley
Yes, so long as one is a subset of the other haplogroup. You might want to read this article too. https://dna-explained.com/2016/11/16/concepts-undocumented-adoptions-vs-untested-y-lines/
Hi Roberta,
Thank you for a well presented and most informative explanation of ‘Haplogroups’
Yours is by far the best and easiest to understand and does not leave out anything important regarding this topic. I now understand what a haplogroup is! Very interesting and exciting!
Kerry from Western Australia (T2)
Hi Roberta,
I am trying to figure out if I am related to someone who could possibly be a sister or relative. Her Maternal Halplogroup is B4 and mine is B4 but the numbers after B4 are different? I am new to all of this DNA testing and am trying to understand how we can be tested to see if we are blood relatives/siblings. We live in different countries. Can you please help me or direct me to any information that would help us? Thank you so much! MJ
Hi, the person I am trying to see if we are related has a subgroup of b1a1, and my subgroup is d3, but we have the same B4? Does this mean their is a possibility of us being related or not? Do you need to share a subgroup as well? Thank you MJ
Yes, I do Quick Consults which and would be glad to look at both of your results. If you are interested, you can purchase a Quick Consult at this link. http://www.dnaxplain.com/shop/features.aspx