It’s just 13 generations between me and a Catholic martyr.
My ancestor, Elizabeth Bowling, was married to immigrant Thomas Speak(e), sometime before November of 1663, probably in St. Mary’s County, Maryland. In the fall of 2013, the Speak Family Association undertook a trip back to the homeland of both Speak and Bowling families, both from Lancashire, England, about 30 miles distant from each other. In preparation for the trip, I compiled information about the Bowling family from various sources. Aside from the DNA portion, little of this is my original research. I am grateful to all of the original contributors for their diligence and hard work, much of it done in the churches in England.
According to cousin Harold Speake, now deceased, Thomas Speak(e), who may have been an indentured servant, arrived from England sometime before 1662. We know that in 1662, he was arrested for debt, so he had been here long enough to acquire that debt.
We know that Maryland was organized as a haven for Catholics, persecuted in England, and the Speake family was indeed Catholic. They were in England, their family records being found in the original Catholic, now Protestant, church in Gisburn, and they were in the colonies as well. Bowling Speake, born in 1674, the son of Thomas Speake and Elizabeth Bowling was prosecuted and proudly pled guilty in June of 1752 for publicly drinking to the health of the “Pretender,” the Catholic and deposed King James. In other words, Bowling was Catholic and proudly and publicly so, regardless of the consequences.
The Bowling family was also Catholic in England as well as in Maryland. They lived near and in the village of Chorley and the area of Charnock Richard, some 30 miles from Gisburn, in Lancashire. The Bowling family members found themselves on the list of recusants, in other words, devout, religious warriors or stubborn, unrepentant Catholics, depending on your perspective.
On the map below, A is Chorley and B is Gisburn, both in Lancashire.
No record of the marriage of Elizabeth Bowling and Thomas Speake has been found in the UK churches, so it’s presumed that they married after both families settled in St. Mary’s County, Maryland. They probably both lived at or near Boarman’s Manor, given that Elizabeth’s brother James is recorded as living there. There was only one Catholic church in that area at that time, and both families likely attended. We were told during our visit in 2011 that the early church services were held in people’s homes. If your religion was enough to lose your land and your life for, holding and attending services was something that would have been a very important part of everyday life. And of course, they would have sought other Catholics to marry.
In his article, “The Bowlings of Boarman’s Manor,” Jeffrey Wills, Bowling family historian, tells us that the records of early Maryland give evidence of the Bowling family starting with James Bowling (1636-1693) who arrived in the province sometime before 1658. The Bowlings became associated with other Catholics who eventually settled on Boarman’s Manor in what is now Charles County, Maryland. James had no children from his two marriages, but his will makes clear that there were descendants from his siblings, John (died 1684), Thomas (died 1700) and Elizabeth who married Thomas Speake.
Jeffrey states that the family in Maryland was Catholic and possibly shoemakers by trade. Court records exist that establish relationships with a couple of people, neither of whom have been identified, but the most important clue to the Bowling origin comes from a 1734 deposition, where it is stated that John Bowling, brother to James, “came from Lancashire and left a brother there by the name of Roger Bowling” (Charles Co. Court Rec. R2, 528). Now we have the names of three brothers: John, James and Roger Bowling.
The Bowlings In Lancashire
In Lancashire, practically the only family of the Bowling name is one centered in Charnock Richard in the parish of Standish. T. C. Porteus, in his 1927 history of the parish, describes the township of Charnock Richard as “a nursery of recusants,” meaning a hotbed of Catholic nonconformity to the new Elizabethan church. Among the recusants listed there in 1628 are a John Bowling and wife. The township of Chorley is adjacent and there is a village of Chesham is about 15 miles southeast, shown on the Lancashire map below, both names that the Bowling family of Maryland used for their land holdings.
One problem with the Bowling family, and most English families of this timeframe, is that they reused every first name in every generation. That means if your father’s name was John, then one son would be named John, and one grandchild in every child’s family would be named John. If the original John had 10 living children, that means he had 1 son John and 10 grandsons John and in the next generation, using the same math, there would be 100 Johns in just the original John’s line. And every family had someone named John. If you were lucky, your ancestor was named something like Balthasar, not John. But in both the Speake and Bowling families, there were lots of Johns, James and Williams, etc.
Originally, the Bowling family that James and Elizabeth belonged to were identified as the children of Roger Bowling of Charnock Richard, a shoemaker who wrote a will 17 Sept. 1673, proved on 10 Nov. 1673. He refers to his children: John Bowling, Thomas Bowling, James Bowling, Ann Bowling, Jenet Bowling, eldest daughter Elizabeth (wife of John Catliffe). He also mentioned a grandson Roger Bowling, son of John.
However, the information about Elizabeth Bowling being married to John Catliffe, given that “our” Elizabeth married Thomas Speake, had to be reconciled. Some have suggested that John Speake, the innkeeper, might have been Thomas Speake’s child by a first, unknown, wife, with Elizabeth perhaps marrying Thomas as a widow in 1773, having Bowling in 1774. There is no evidence to support this speculation.
The Bowlings in England are not easy to unravel.
The baptisms of about fifty Bowlings are attested from the 1550 to 1650, and Roger is a name found in several generations, so locating the specific line is not straightforward. The fact that there is no baptismal record for the children mentioned in Roger’s will of 1673 suggests that there could be many more Bowlings than attested in the Anglican church records. Of course, Catholics attempted to prevent their children from being baptized in the Anglican church – and apparently often succeeded, much to the chagrin of genealogists today.
Jeffrey suggested that Elizabeth Bowling Speak’s line was as follows:
- Elizabeth, daughter of
- Roger “the shoemaker” Bowling, born 1619 who married Elizabeth, son of
- Hugh Bowling, born 1591 who married Ellen Finch, son of
- Raffe Bollling
Shirley Bowling Platt along with Jean Purdy, in England, have put together a summary of information as well. Shirley was kind enough to send me her detailed work, for which I am exceedingly grateful, and I have extracted from it below.
Jean and Shirley found additional information that proves that our Elizabeth Bowling was not the Elizabeth Bowling who married John Catliffe, so our Elizabeth was not Roger the shoemaker’s daughter.
Jean says, “Burt saw Roger’s original will which is now too fragile to see. He thought her husband’s name was Ratcliffe. I have never found any Catliffes, but Radcliffes or Ratcliffes abound. The family originated in Radcliffe Towers, the ruins of which are about 200 yards from where I live. The chapel there was used by Catholics throughout the penal years. Steuart Bowling drew my attention to a marriage in 1672 on IGI of a John Radcliffe to Elizabeth? at Saddleworth Yorkshire. The place is misleading as it is actually on the Lancashire side of the Pennines, just above Oldham and is now part of the Greater Manchester connurbation. I have been to the church and Elizabeth Bowling of Charnock Richard married John Radcliffe (son of Alexander) at Saddleworth church in 1671. Sadly she is also buried there in 1676 and John married again in 1680.”
Therefore, we confirm that our Elizabeth is not the daughter of Roger Bowling.
Shirley and Jean attribute our Elizabeth Bowling to Hugh Bowling and Ellen Fynch/Finch, so eliminating Roger the shoemaker and attributing Elizabeth to Hugh directly and not as a grandchild. A daughter Elizabeth was born to Hugh and Ellen in Charnock Richard in June of 1635 and died in March of 1637/38. A second daughter Elizabeth was born to this couple on 25 Oct 1641, also in Charnock Richard, Lancashire. She was christened on 25 Oct 1641 in Standish. This is believed to be our Elizabeth who died before 1692 in St. Mary’s County, MD.
The rest of the children’s names proven through James Bowling’s will are found in this family as well, at least the ones we know, so this certainly seems to be the right family.
Shirley and Jean’s proposed ancestry for Elizabeth, listing oldest generation first, was as follows:
- Robert Bowling born 1520 in Chorley married Agnes, last name unknown, who died on April 26, 1566 in Chorley
- Hugh Bowling born 1540 and died July 17, 1598, married Constance Bibbie on 12 May 1560 in St. Wilfred’s, Standish, Lancashire. Constance was born about 1540 and was buried on 18 Dec 1601 in St. Wilfrid’s Church, Standish. This is the oldest Bowling burial record.
Perhaps she is buried here in the area where some stones have been cleared.
Or maybe here, near the church entrance, nourishing the newly planted trees.
Her funeral would have been preached in this stunningly beautiful church. This nave has heard many Bowling funerals over the centuries.
This exquisite carved cross has overseen many joyful and sorrowful events in the Bowling family – many baptisms, weddings and funerals. All of life’s events took place under the vigilance of this cross – first as Catholic and then as Anglican.
Most of the Bowlings, including Constance and her husband, Hugh, up until the early 1700s, were on Papists lists and/or fined for recusancy. Hugh Bowling and Constance Bibby were convicted of recusancy, which probably led to them losing their lands in 1591.
A record from Steuart Bowling (apparently translated from Latin):
Hugh Bowling of Charnock Richard, husbandman (small farmer); Constance Bowling of Charnock Richard, Roger Bowling of Charnock Richard, and Elizabeth of Charnock Richard, Cecily Bowling of Preston and John Pilkington of Coppull, husbandman, land in Coppull.” Choppull is adjacent to both Chorley and Charnock Richard.
- Raffe Bowling born 1563 in Chorley, Lancashire. He was christened on 4 Dec 1563 in Standish, Lancashire, probably in this same baptismal font, and died in 1600.
Raffe (Ralph) Bowling was in Leeds, Yorkshire as late as April 16, 1590 (christening record of his son, Rauffe)–but was in Chorley as early as 6 Aug 1591 (christening of his son Hughe). Raffe married Margaret Marston in 1588 in St. Peter’s, Leeds, Yorkshire. There is a question if Margaret Marston was the second wife of Raffe…since some of children were born before this marriage in 1588.
Jean Purdy states that there is no proof whatsoever that our Hugh’s father Ralph (Raafe) was the one marrying in Leeds. She searched all the records of people given leave to reside in Charnock Richard. This was necessary under the Poor Laws—-there was a John Bowling in the late 1600s—but no Ralph or Rafe.
- Hugh was born in 1591 in Charnock Richard, Lancashire. He was christened on 6 Aug 1591 in Chorley, most likely in the old bapistry, shown below, now retired, in St. Laurence in Chorley.
Hugh died on 7 Sep. 1651 in Charnock Richard and was buried on 7 Sep 1651 in Parish Church, Standish, Lancashire. Perhaps his coffin was carried in through this gate in the church wall.
Both Hugh and his wife Ellen’s funerals were most likely preached in this church, before their coffin was carried outside to be buried in the church yard.
Hugh’s grave is now unmarked someplace in the cemetery below.
The cemetery surrounds the church, some areas having been cleared of stones for maintenance. Some graves reused. The oldest stones, of course, would have been located closest to the church and now are, sadly, long gone.
The cemetery extends right up to the church walls, shown below.
Burial space was and remains an issue for all of these old churches. In some cases, extra land was annexed for the “burying ground,” but that wasn’t always possible. They had to make do with what they had and they did, using every possible inch and then reusing older graves whose families were no longer there or whose markers were not legible. Of course, there are also burials inside the church, in the floor and in crypts. Those burial locations were reserved for the wealthy or the notorious. Our family fell in neither category.
The death bed testament of Hugh Bowling gives his residence as “Bowleings Farm.” Later land records suggest this was at Four Lane Ends—where the lane in Charnock Richard crosses the road to Preston and Lancaster. There was another farm “Bowlings in the Fields,” which Jean believes belonged to the other branch of the family (that of Roger the Shoemaker). It was later acquired by Henry the Blacksmith’s Great Grandson, another Hugh Bowling, in the late 1700s. Jean was unable to pinpoint where that was—but the name suggests it was out of the village. Charnock Richard is about half way between Standish and Chorley.
Hugh married Ellen Fynch, daughter of Roger Fynch and Isabella or Elizabeth Brears on 9 Apr 1616 in St. Laurence Church, Chorley, Lancashire, probably entering through the front door shown below.
The Fynch Family
Ellyn Fynch was born in Jan 1597/1598 in Charnock Richard. She died on 13 Jun 1659 in Charnock Richard and was buried on 13 Jun 1659 in Standish Parish Churchyard, Lancashire, below.
It is believed that Roger Fynch (born 1573) is the son of John Finch (born circa 1548-84). He is believed to be the martyr, John Finch (Fynch), yeoman farmer of Eccleston, who was arrested at Christmas 1581, tried in Lancaster on April 18, 1584 on the charge of harboring Catholic Priests and subsequently found guilty and executed.
St. Mary’s the Virgin Church in Eccleston, below, dates to the 1300s, so it is likely the home church of John Fynch. The name of Eccleston itself came from the Celtic word “eglēs” meaning a church, and the Old English word “tūn” meaning a farmstead or settlement – i.e. a settlement by a Romano-British church. It’s quite ancient, having been mentioned in the Doomsday Book in 1086.
John Fynch’s devotion to the Catholic religion in the face of adversity is very likely representative of the devotion felt by the entire Catholic conclave in Lancashire.
John Fynch was a yeoman of Eccleston, Lancashire, from a Catholic family, but brought up an Anglican. When he was twenty years old he went to London where he spent nearly a year with some cousins at Inner Temple. While there he was struck by the contrast between Protestantism and Catholicism in practice, and determined to lead a Catholic life.
Failing to find advancement in London he returned to Lancashire where he was reconciled to the Catholic Church. He then married and settled down, his house becoming a center of missionary work, he himself harboring priests and aiding them in every way, besides acting as catechist. He drew on himself the hostility of the authorities, and at Christmas, 1581, he was entrapped into bringing a priest, George Ostliffe, to a place where both were apprehended. It was given out that Finch, having betrayed the priest and other Catholics, had taken refuge with the Earl of Derby, but in fact, he was kept in the earl’s house as a prisoner. For three years he was held prisoner in various locations and prisons, alternatively tortured and bribed to obtain information on other Catholics.
He was eventually removed to the Fleet Prison, Manchester, and afterwards to the House of Correction. When he refused to go to the Protestant church he was dragged there by the feet. Following that, he was returned to Lancashire where on April 19, 1584, he was tried with three priests, convicted and executed with Priest James Bell, on April 20, 1584 at Lancaster for secreting a Catholic priest for Christmas services and denying that the Queen was head of the Church.
John Fynch was Beatified in 1929 as one of the Lancashire Martyrs. Beatification in the Catholic Church is to be one of the blessed and thus worthy of public religious veneration in a particular region or religious congregation. The Catholic Church canonizes or beatifies only those whose lives have been marked by the exercise of heroic virtue, and only after this has been proved by common repute for sanctity and by conclusive arguments.
One of the church windows in St. Mary’s Catholic Church in Chorley honors John Fynch of Eccleston who is pictured with a haystack, because they say, on the church website, that he was of “farming stock.” They also mention that John Finch’s relatives still live in the Mawdesley area. The map below shows that these locations are in relatively close proximity, 3 or 4 miles, to each other and also to Charnock Richard.
It seems that Bowling Speake came by his proud, defiant recussancy honestly. John Fynch, his great-great-great-great-grandfather, would have been proud of him, some 171 years after John’s own act of defiance and 168 years after his barbaric death, being drawn and quartered. I’m sure that Bowling knew that his great-great grandfather was a Catholic martyr. That isn’t a story that is lost in a Catholic family. I’m sure it was both a source of great pride and great sorrow.
I have to wonder where John Finch/Fynch was buried, if the family was allowed to gather what remains of him they could find and if they were allowed to bury anything. He surely would not have been buried in the churchyard which was Anglican at that time. So where was he buried, and the priest also killed with him?
In the book, “The Antiquities of Canterbury In two Parts” by Nicolas Battely it states that John Finch, William Selling and Thomas Goldston were “buried in the Martyrdom.” This is in the History of Christ-Church in Canterbury section, page 35. Elsewhere in the book, it says “John Finch – of this prior’s acts or what he did living, I have seen no monument, but that of him dead, you may find in the Martyrdom, where he lies interred under this broken Epitaph, which is in the Appendix Numb LV.” Other places in the book refer to the Martyrdom as an actual location and in one place it is called “The Altar of the Martyrdom of St. Thomas” in the cathedral.
To say I was excited by this was an understatement. It was about 3 AM – I was hyperventilating. Was it even possible that I had stumbled upon the final resting place of our John Finch? And if so, why didn’t they tell us this when we visited St. Mary’s church in Chorley? They had other information about the family- why not this? Something seemed wrong.
I found the book online, scanned by Google, but as luck would have it, the ONE page I needed, page 62 in the final appendix, had been missed during the scanning. I had to give up and go to bed, but not before sending a message to a cousin asking him to see if he could find the elusive page 62.
I had even found a picture of the altar near where John Finch is buried in Canterbury. The next day, cousin Jerry found page 62, I typed the Latin of John Finch’s epitaph into a Latin translator, and here’s the English equivalent, more or less:
“Here lies John Fynch of Winchelsey once prior to this ecclefise who takes on 9 January eificia conftrueta closing many other goods whose soul.”
I wondered where Winchelsey was, and set about to find out. I discovered that it is no place close to Lancashire, on the Southeast coast of England, and the John Fynch from Winchelsey was a politician that lived in the 1600s. Crumb. Crumb. Crumb. Not our John at all. Our John Fynch/Finch is still MIA. I hate wild goose chases and I felt terrible about involving my cousin in this one – getting everyone’s hopes up. But I’m very glad we persevered for page 62!
Elizabeth Bowling in America
Jean Purdy feels that Elizabeth Bowling accompanied her brothers, James, Thomas and John from England to Maryland, departing for America with her brothers Thomas and John after their mother died in 1659. James Bowling was already in Maryland by that time.
What we do know is that Elizabeth Bowling Speake was subpoenaed to court on November 3, 1663 to testify. She had son John Speak, the Innkeeper, whose birth was determined from 2 depositions given by John as an adult to have occurred in 1665. This implies her marriage about 1663, and possibly somewhat earlier, to Thomas Speake. She had son Bowling in 1674 according to numerous depositions given by Bowling throughout his lifetime. It’s rather unusual that they didn’t have any more children. Perhaps they had children that did not live to adulthood.
Thomas died in August of 1681, still a relatively young man of 48, his will leaving everything to his eldest son, John. He appoints his brother-in-law, James Bowling, his executor and wills “that my Loving brother in Law James Bowling hath the Disposall of my children to be brought up in the Roman Catholick faith.” Elizabeth was apparently gone too, less than age 50, by the time her brother James made his will in 1692. James was childless and left his estate to his siblings and the children of his siblings, including John and Bowling Speake.
It must have been difficult on John and Bowling Speak to lose their father in 1681, their mother sometime in the next decade, before 1692, and their uncle in 1692 who was or probably had been raising them. John would have been about 27 in 1692 and Bowling about 18. That’s a lot of loss and a rough beginning for 2 young men.
Beginning with John Finch, the Martyr, to me, we find the following:
- John Finch of Eccleston, the Martyr was born 1748, died April 20, 1584
- Roger Fynch born 1573-1642, Eccleston married Isabella or Elizabeth Brears (1569-1631) in Charnock circa 1595.
- Hugh Bowling was born in 1591 in Charnock Richard, Lancashire. He was christened on 6 Aug 1591 in Chorley. Hugh died on 7 Sep 1651 in Charnock Richard and was buried on 7 Sep 1651 in Parish Church, Standish, Lancashire. Hugh married Ellen Fynch, daughter of Roger Fynch and Isabella or Elizabeth Brears on 9 Apr 1616 in St. Laurence Church, Chorley, Lancashire.
- Thomas Speake (c 1634-1681) married Elizabeth Bowling (1642 – before 1692)
- Bowling Speake (1674-1755) married Mary Benson
- Thomas Speake (1698-1755) married Jane, last name unknown
- Charles Beckworth (or Beckwith) Speake (1741-1794) married Anne, last name unknown (1744-1789)
- Nicholas Speak (1782-1852) married Sarah Faires (1786-1852)
- Charles Speak (1804-1840/1850) married Ann McKee (1801/1805-1840/1850)
- Elizabeth Speak (1832-1903) married Samuel Claxton (Clarkson) (1827-1876)
- Margaret Claxton (1851-1920) married Joseph Bolton (1853-1920)
- Ollie Florence Bolton (1874-1955) married and divorced William George Estes (1873-1971)
- William Sterling Estes (my Dad) (1903-1963)
So there you go, just 13 generations between me and a Catholic martyr. Well, possibly, assuming all of that is correct.
What can we do, if anything, to solidify this connection? Can DNA help?
Can DNA Help?
How would we go about determining if there is a Finch connection in our Speak line? Actually, it’s in the Bowling line that feeds into the Speak line with the marriage of Elizabeth Bowling to Thomas Speake in Maryland in the 1660s. What this means is that if there is a Finch connection, every descendant of both the Bowling family in American through the Maryland group, and the Speaks family in America though Thomas and Elizabeth are descendants of the Finch family.
The first thing to do is to be sure that every Speak(e)(s) descendant who has taken an autosomal test is in the Speak project so that I, as the administrator, can see if they match any individuals with the ancestral or current surname of Finch.
Currently, we have 18 individuals in the Speak project who meet the criteria and have already taken the autosomal DNA test. When I began this comparison a few weeks ago, we had 12 Speak individuals, but I checked the matches of all 12 individuals and found another dozen or so autosomal matches to people with Speak lineage. I invited those people to join the Speak DNA project, even though they are not descended from the direct paternal line. In order to keep this straight, I have an autosomal grouping category in both the Y and mtDNA portions of the project since I’m actually using it for autosomal matching as well.
Next, I searched for Finch and Fynch matches for each of the project participants. It’s surprising how many I found. Among 12 participants, there were 42 Finch matches. Of those, four ancestral groups were repeated more than once. Looking at these groups, it’s possible that they could share a common ancestor between them. That is encouraging.
I checked the Finch DNA project to see if I can tell anything about the Finch groups I found with repeated autosomal matches to Speak descendants.
- John Finch born 1625 England – his son Guy Finch b Aug 18 1655 in Berkeley Gloucestershire, England d 1688 Calvert Co., MD, married Rebecca, daughter Mary Finch married Charles Beaven.
- Also in Calvert Co., MD, Elizabeth Finch born 1687 Woodbridge, Calvert Co., MD died in 1729 Charles Co MD married William Elder.
- Margaret Finch b c 1590 in Stanley, Gloucestershire, England married John Flood and died in Charles City, VA (also shown as Surry Co., VA)
- Stamford CT Finch group
- One lone person who says “Finch- Lancashire,” but doesn’t answer the e-mails
The Calvert County, MD group could well be Catholic as well.
The Finch DNA project and site tells us that the CT group is from Yorkshire. Unfortunately, the Calvert County group seems to be unrepresented in Y DNA testing. There are also no families from Charles City, VA or Surry Co., VA.
Even more encouraging is that one individual listed their Finch ancestor as being from Lancashire. Unfortunately, I e-mailed them and they have not yet replied.
Shortly, I’ll check the list of Speak participants for Bowling matches as well to see who we match in that line that I could invite to join the project to see if the Bowlings are descended from the Finch family utilizing the same methodology.
From this point forward, we need to do the Finch genealogy work on one hand, relative to the matches, and on the other, we need to work on triangulation to see if we can attribute a DNA match to two people who share the same common ancestral line. That would confirm, along with a match to us, that we do share that common ancestor with them.
However, our common Finch ancestor is many, many generations removed. Little of John Finch’s DNA may be remnant in his descendants – but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to find it. You can’t fail if you don’t try, but you also can’t succeed!
This job will take a little bit of genealogy sleuthing, some genetic analysis, a dash of synchronicity and a huge dose of good luck.
Wish me luck!! I’ll get back with you on this one. I’m busy hunting for my magic DNA wand right now. A little bit of magic dust wouldn’t hurt either!
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Very much enjoyed this thoughtful and detailed description of the Bowling/Speak history in Lancashire. I visited the area (Chorley, Standish, Preston) in 2004 doing research, and was able to find some birth/death records n the local Standish library. Also, one of original Bowling wills in Preston. I’ll have to dig out my notes to provide more detail.
I descend from the Charles County Bowlings. My mother (Edith) was one of 11 children born to James Bowling and Gertrude (Hayden) Bowling. While I have done several DNA tests (National Genographic, 23 and me), they are only related to my father’s line. I notice that FT DNA is now offering a complete autosomal DNA test for $139. Would this be helpful?
The autosomal test at Family Tree DNA is called Family Finder and it’s $99, not $139. The $139 sale is for mitochondrial which is only your mother’s direct matrilineal line. So, to answer your question, yes, the $99 Family Finder test would include any DNA from your Bowling ancestors. Maybe we’ll match! You are welcome to join the Speak DNA project where I’m “gathering” those of us with a common ancestor in that line, which, of course, includes Bowling.
I’ve done the complete DNA study with 23andme, but no Bowlings, Speakes or Finches. Is there a way for you to access this information that would allow you to determine if there are connections?
Have you transferred your DNA results to Family Tree DNA? It’s much easier to utilize the tools there in the projects and such.
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I too am descended from Nicholas Speak and Sarah Faires. My maternal grandfather is descended from one of their daughters and my maternal grandmother is descended from another of their daughters. I have taken the Family Tree Y DNA test as part of the Staples Surname DNA Project. I have not yet taken the Family Finder test, but will do so and join the Speaks DNA Project if you think that might be helpful. I have found your blogs fascinating (just discovered them today). I knew about the ancestral history back through Thomas Speake and Elizabeth Bowling, and I have intended to join both the Bolling/Bowling association and the Speaks association, but just haven’t gotten around to it. I have been spending what little time I have trying to research my paternal line back through Staples, Via, Walton, Mason, Sewell, Willoughby to the Willoughby, Welles, FitzAlan, Plantagenet lines in England. I need to spend more time looking at my Speak/Bowling line. Your blogs have a wealth of information which I would never have the time to discover on my own. Thank you so much. If my DNA will be helpful, I am glad to contribute in whatever way I can.
So pleased to meet a cousin. Yes, please do take the autosomal Family Finder test and join the Speaks project. I’m trying hard to prove the Finch line and I can use every descendant I can find. Who know which one of us might carry that definitive DNA:)
I have ordered the Family Finder test. Should I go ahead and join the Speaks project or wait until the results come back, or doesn’t it matter? By coincidence, I have a Y-DNA match to a Finch at 12 markers, 0 genetic distance. Do you have any evidence on Gideon Faires beyond his parents? My mother, Velma Jean King, was born in Lee County, Virginia. Her mother was a Rosenbaum–Vola Kate Rosenbaum–descended from Nicholas and Sarah. Her father, Ben King, was descended from Nicholas and Sarah through his mother, a Bartley. As it happens, there is a tie-in between Sarah McSpadden and my paternal Lyle family. Sarah McSpadden’s brother married the granddaughter of Matthew Lyle. I am descended from Matthew’s brother, Daniel Lyle. Those two Lyle’s and a third Lyle btother came from Ireland, across the water from Scotland, in the early 1700s as one of the original settlers at Timber Ridge, near Lexington, Virginia, then in Augusta County, now in Rockbridge County. The McSpaddens did too. (So did the Houstons–General Sam Houston was born at Timber Ridge.) Matthew Lyle donated the land and Daniel Lyle, a stonemason, helped build the Timber Ridge Presbyterian Church. So Sarah McSpadden was a Presbyterian I am sure. If she converted to a Methodist, that would have been in Washington County after she married Gideon Faires.
Yes, go ahead and join the Speakes project now. I have one generation beyond Gideon.
This is so fascinating.I am a Bowling, although my great grandfather spelled it Boling at times. I am descended from the Robert Bowling line in England and., I don’t know anymore about it than that. I have been working on as far back as the 1800’s and can’t find a lot more than I have.,since I am not a very well schooled geneologist. .I have been trying to find what happened to my own father, Laben Bowling who disappeared in 1946 with no trace of him left behind. So, I came across my cousin Robert who told me about the Bowling Association as he has been working on the DNA aspect of it. Trying to find a connection to Pocahontas.. I would be thrilled to know that I was related to a catholic martyr. I am catholic and love my church..My great grandfather was Andrew J. Bowling a physician and from North Carolina and surrounding area. My grandfather was Dr. George W. Bowling from Kentucky. I can be reached at
firstname.lastname@example.org if anyone wants to write. Would my DNA be any good at finding out about any other questions since the line I am in is from England. ? Good Luck , Beatrice
Autosomal DNA could help you find you line in England depending on who you match. It also might not. You won’t know unless you test.
How do I get the Autosomal test? Is it confined to male or female? My cousin was asking for male DNA for his Bowling line proof, specifically from my brother, his cousin.
Hi Beatrice, You order the test through Family Tree DNA. I’ll e-mail you.
Hi Beatrice, I am a Bowling descended from Robert Bowling’s line. I only found this out by testing my Father’s Y chromosomal line. (The rare T-M70.) My own research suggests we are Bowling by adoption….very confusing.
I Previously tested Dad using the Ancestry Autosomal Test. The only Bowlings in my DNA cousins are in the U.S. including the Red Bollings! Intriguingly the Red Bollings are descended from the Bollings of Bolling HAll, Bradford, Yorkshire. Some reports suggest that our Robert Bollinge/Bowling of Chorley was born in Wibsey not far from Bolling HAll! Regards Sue Lane nee Bowling.
After I get the test, how do I find out it if its pertinent to the information needed to verify if related. Do I send it to you or another organization? I don’t know what I would be looking for to verify the information needed. Is an inexpensive test going to be sufficient or will I be needing a very expensive test? Some are very expensive and one is $99. Beatrice
Hi Beatrice, How do you think you’re related? That determine which test you take.
I am not sure I am related except all my Bowling ancestors came from England during the early 1800’s. I Know my cousin has traced us to the line that might be related to Pocahontas but can’t prove it because of DNA not been done by all the people in his list. I just wanted to see how I can find out if I am related to Elizabeth Bowling and her line. Forgive me , I am only an amateur at this and really would like to know. I am 80 now and not much time to find out about the Martyr part of the Bowlings. Thanks if you can help but if not I will not expect an answer.. Beatrice
If I want to find out if I am in the Speakes line which test should I take ?.
You can take the Family Finder test at Family Tree DNA and then join the Speaks surname project there. That test MAY or MAY NOT tell you if you share any DNA with various Speaks family members. If you do, we would then need to track the genealogy to be sure your shared DNA is from a Speakes ancestor and not some other ancestral line. So, in a nutshell, there is no fool proof way to do this. Do you have a Speak or Speaks in your family tree or a reason to think you do descend from this line?
Not that I know of. I thought if I took the autosomal test it might help. I just know my ancestors in the Bowling line came from England. I will take the test and then let you know. Beatrice
Hello, my name is Dennis Bowling, and I was tracing my family origins. My family came from England settled in Maryland in the 1600s. From what I have uncovered and what had been passed down through the family was the the bowling family was run out of England for backing Cromwell. When they arrived in Maryland they were indentured. Several ran out on there obligations and hid among the Cherokee Indians and married Indian women. My great x 3 grandmother Susan Bowling of Kentucky was captured and sent to Oklahoma on the trail of tears, only to escape back to Kentucky. I was uploading all this to MyHeritage.com ,but due to a house fire I lost all my research that I had collected over a 35 year period. The family members that I had set down and talked to and documented all this with have long passed. I was able to upload the family tree for the most part back to the mid 1600s. So for anyone wanting to see if there is a connection, they can look there.
Oh Dennis – house fires are the scourge of genealogists. I’m so sorry to hear that. Can you please provide a link to your tree? Have you done the Y DNA test? We have Bowling males from this line. You could see if it’s the same line as yours.
No I haven’t done a DNA. And as for a link I don’t know how to do that. I know that my family tree is on MyHeritage.com under Dennis Bowling.
Hello Dennis, I am Beatrice Bowling– ( Zienkosky) married name) and I have been trying to find a Cherokee connection with my Great Grandfathers line and wondered if you had any further information. I am the Great Great Granddaughter of Andrew Jackson Bowling of North Carolina who I believe is the connection through his wife and we believe she was Cherokee. I am sure he lived in North Carolina before going to Kentucky at the time of the removal of the Indian nation and this is all we can find.( He was born in 1820 and migrated to Kentucky in 1835,
He was a jailer in Pike County in 1841,was part Indian, was a doctor in Morgan County , KY. in 1850, married , Mary Blakenship in 1851- Morgan County, KY. He migrated from North Carolina, to Kentucky in 1850, He had children, Sarrah, Hiram, Cyntha, ( may be Cynthia ) George W. ( my grandfather ), Columbus, an infant, I am trying to find more about the mother of Mary Blankenship as she was probably Cherokee.
Susan Bowling was my great great grandmother, my great grandmother was Martha Collins and my grandmother was Ella Bowling. Susan has a roll number with the Cherokee tribes.
Am I right in saying that you are still looking for Finch ancestors that are directly related to John Finch the Martyr? I happened across your site as I was researching my local history and was amazed to find that Martyrs house (Lane End House in Mawdesley) is very close to me. His ancestors still live there. just a FYI. regards
If you happen by that house, will you please take a picture for me and the surrounding area? Robertajestes at att.net
And yes, would love to make contact with descendants too. Thank you for replying to the post.
Oh, this is so exciting. I had never had the name before and I found some info on Google and think I found it on the map. I had no idea it still had a chapel inside or that it was still in the family. Thank you so much.
I can’t thank you enough for the name of this property. I spent several hours last night trying to find tidbits about it.
HI! I’m doing a write up of Blessed John Finch for the Archdiocese of Denver in the United States. Your picture of the stained glass window is one of the only pictures of him I’ve been able to find. Would you be willing to let me use your picture? Thank you!
I had the same problem when I was researching. Please feel free but credit it.
Hi, Looking to resolve the Wm Bolling born about 1695 we know came from Maryland and settled into Granville Co., NC earlier Edgecombe Co., NC. He was long mislinked into Virginia Bollings group 6, and is a Bolling group 3. This is not my line but I am helping to resolve it.
I’m descended from John Finch and Guy Finch (the Calvert County MD branch). I don’t know the family’s religion back to the 17th century when they immigrated, but am guessing the choice of Maryland over Virginia suggests they were Catholic. My family has been as far back as anyone can remember.
I would love to connect with you and see if any of the Speak cousins match your if you have tested your autosomal DNA. Please e-mail me at robertajestes at (@sign) att.net. Fingers crossed for a match.!
I am also descended from the Finch family. Elizabeth Finch married William Elder of MD. He was an early Catholic residing on the family plantation now in Mount St. Mary’s MD. An Elder married a Harris who married an O’Reilly from Pittsburgh, PA. John O’Reilly was studying at the college there. The O’Reillys owned a well known brewery in Pittsburgh. Down a few more generations and family names and here I am. I actually live in the DC area not too far from Mt. St. Marys. The Finch family is mentioned on an early family settlers page:
Have you DNA tested? If so, where?
Thank you for your articles Roberta. I have recently discovered that a Sir Raffe Bowling and Lady Margareta Marsden are my 10th great grandparents if my tree is correct. I have Sir Raffe Bowling (1563-1600), his son was a Hughe Raffe Bowling (1591-1666), Col Robert Bowling (Bolling?-1646-1709). I have Col Robert Bolling married to a Anne Stith. Not sure if Jane Bolling is my 8th great grandmother or not. Then I have a Anne Bolling married to a Robert Wynne, There daughter was a Hannah Wynne that married my 6th great grandfather Samuel Marksberry II. Do you know if there is a connection between the Bollings>Wynne>Marksberry’s? I seem to have trouble find a Anne Bolling married to a Robert Wynne.
Where did you find the documentation for these relationships? The various types of proof will help you determine their validity.
Strangely (probably coincidentally) I have hits with the Red Bollings on Ancestry Autosomal DNA. As far as I can make out on the Bolling/Bowling surname project their ancestor Robert Bolling Yo of Bolling HAll near Wibsey, Yorkshire are Y R1b Haplogroup. Our Bowlings are of course T-M70. It is all fascinating.
Hi. I came across this thread by complete accident while researching John Finch. I’m married to a Finch and we’re both from the Leyland area of Lancashire, England. I’ve done some initial research into his family tree and believe that his family is related to John Finch. We’re obviously very familiar with that area. I’m going to buy my husband a DNA kit for his birthday in Feb so that will be interesting. With regard to John Finch’s remains… I suspect they were hidden at Stonyhurst, along with many old Catholic relics. It’s run by the Jesuits.
When you purchase your husband’s DNA kit, please purchase a Y DNA kit so his Finch line will be tested. You can also purchase a Family Finder test. Here’s the link to purchase: http://www.kqzyfj.com/click-6754800-13710356
If you would like to e-mail me, I can help you further. robertajestes at att.net
Hi, I will back Roberta’s comment. Only the Y DNA is useful. There are far too many generations back to use the autosomal test for family history purposes. Good LUck.
I am very likely also descended from John Finch. This was found out through Y DNA which proves we are related to the Bowlings of Chorley. The rest is complicated and I am using Autosomal DNA (Ancestry) to find which branch of the BOwlings we are from within c. 5 generations. Illegitimacy and adoption in 1875 has confused the issue!
I believe we are descended from the BOwlings of Preston as that was where my GG GRanny & GGGAuntie were living at the time. Theses Bowlings are descended from the unfortunate John Finch.
Lovely tohear from you, Regards SUe Lane.
It will still be interesting to see if there are any matching segments to Speak descendants. Segments have been known to remain intact fir a long time. Given the situation, it’s also impossible to rule out other common but unknown lines.
Thanks. I’ll make sure I order the correct test kit. Our Finch family was easy to follow backwards in time. They didn’t move far… Eccleston, Leyland…
That’s a blessing!
I hope to help with your DNA research if I may be of assistance. Hugh Bowling is my 10 times Great grandfather, but through my father’s paternal side, so I am not sure my DNA will be any help. I originally had my DNA tested through Nat Geo Geno 2.0, but I did purchase a family finder kit on FTDNA (Melissa Gebhardt Kit No. N163560).
Hi cousin!! Please join the Speaks DNA project where you can see if you match anyone within the project.
Hi there – I’m descended from the same line of Bowlings. Jean Purdy’s mother and my grandmother were cousins, I believe? I’ve done ancestry.com and 23andme DNA tests, if they’re of any use?
Yes, you can transfer to Family Tree DNA where many in the family have tested and join the Speaks DNA Project. We would love to have you.
I believe I am descended from Hugh Bowlinge (Bowlling) 1595 – 1651 m Ellyn (Ellin) Fynch 1593–1659
My grandmother was Elinor Muriel Bowling – we are the australian colonials –
Have you DNA tested?
My name is Dennis Bowling. A story passed down through our family on us coming to the new world is that two brothers and one sister arrived in Maryland as endentured servants. After some time the sister Elizabeth married a man that paid off her debt. The two brothers ran off to the Virginia’s and cohabitated with the Cherokee tribes. William was the only name mentioned. My great great grandmother Susan Bowling was a Cherokee Indian with a roll number in Kentucky and passed this story down. My great grandmother was Martha Collins and my grandmother was Ella Bowling. I’m the son of Dennis Bowling. Whether this story is true or not, I do not know.
No – but thinking about it – I am female – my brother would not be interested – so no direct males. Which is the best DNA for me to take?
You’d want an autosomal test of course. There was are several known descendants at Family Tree DNA. But Ancestry has a huge database. You can test at Ancestry and then transfer your results to Family Tree DNA and MyHeritage for free. There’s a small unlock fee for advanced tools.