Ancestry’s ThruLines Are a Hot Mess Right Now – But Here Are Some Great Alternatives

Right now, ThruLines at Ancestry is one hot mess.

Aside from the inherent frustration, especially over a holiday weekend when many people had planned to work on their genealogy, I’d like to say, “don’t panic.”

I don’t have any inside information about what’s going on at Ancestry, and I’ve attempted to make contact through their support page with no luck. They make talking to a person exceedingly difficult; plus, it’s a holiday weekend, and they are probably inundated.

Regardless, I have an idea of what is happening. Ancestry has been in the midst of recalculating “things,” perhaps in relation to their other changes, which I’ll write about separately in a few days.

In any event, Ancestry SURELY MUST KNOW there’s a significant problem because I imagine thousands of their customers are screaming right about now. Adding another voice won’t be helpful.

Symptoms

  • You may not have ThruLines at all.
  • If you do have ThruLines, don’t trust the information, or more to the point, don’t trust that it’s in any way complete.

I have two tests at Ancestry, both connected to different trees so that my matches and Thrulines are calculated separately for each test.

Test One

My first Ancestry test is connected to my primary tree. I’ve been amassing Thrulines cousins ever since the feature was released. I have hundreds of cousin matches descended from some of my more prolific ancestors.

Additionally, my sister’s grandchildren have tested, as have other close relatives who have connected their tests to their trees.

Today, those people are still showing on my match list, but are NOT showing as matches in ThruLines. None of them. Most of my ThruLines ancestors are showing zero matches, and the rest are only showing very few. Ancestors who had hundreds before now have 2, for example.

Here’s an example with my cousin, Erik.

My grandfather, William George Estes, shown in Erik’s tree, above, is his great-grandfather. Erik is my half first cousin, once removed, and we share 417 cM over 16 segments.

Yet, looking at my ThruLine for William George Estes, neither he nor my other cousins are shown as matches. Same for William George’s parents, and so forth.

ThruLines is VERY ill right now.

Test Two

My second DNA test at Ancestry is even worse. There are no ThruLines calculated, even though my DNA is tree-attached, and I had ThruLines previously.

I see this message now, and I can’t even begin to tell you how irritating this is – in part because it suggests the problem is my fault. It’s clearly not. My tree hasn’t changed one bit. I’m not alone, either. I’ve seen other people posting this same message.

And yes, if you’re thinking that there is absolutely no excuse for this – you’re right.

However, outrage isn’t good for us and won’t help – so let’s all do something else fun and productive instead.

Productive Genealogy Plans

Here are some productive suggestions.

At MyHeritage:

At FamilyTreeDNA:

  • Build your haplogroup pedigree chart by locating people through different companies descended from each ancestor in your tree through the appropriate line of descent, and see if they have or will take a Y-DNA or mtDNA test.
  • Tests are on sale right now, and there’s no subscription required at FamilyTreeDNA for anything.
  • Check Y-DNA and mtDNA tests to see if there are new matches and if you share a common ancestor.

At 23andMe:

  • Check for new matches and triangulation.
  • Check to see if 23andMe has added any of your new matches to your genetic tree.

Remember, the parental sides are typically accurate, but the exact placement may not be, and 23andMe deals poorly with half-relationships. It’s certainly still worth checking though, because 23andMe does a lot of heavy lifting for you.

DNAPainter

For me, the most productive thing to do this weekend would be to copy the segment information from new matches with whom I can identify common ancestors at FamilyTreeDNA, MyHeritage and 23andMe – the vendors who provide segment data – and paint those segments to DNAPainter.

Not only does DNAPainter allow me to consolidate my match data in one place, DNAPainter provides the ability for me to confirm ancestors through triangulation, and to assign unknown matches to ancestors as well.

As you can see, I’ve successfully assigned about 90% of my segments to an ancestor, meaning I’ve confirmed descent from that ancestor based on my autosomal matches’ descent from that same ancestor – preferably through another child. Will new matches propel me to 91%? I hope so.

What percentage can you or have you been able to assign?

If you need help getting started, or ideas, I’ve written about DNAPainter several times and provided a compiled resource library of those articles, here.

Have fun!!!

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Reminder – Free Discover Webinar Through September 5th

Wow – has this ever been a week!!! This article should be subtitled, “Never Argue With a Woman Named Idalia.” Trust me, Idalia will be the least popular baby name for 2023.

But first things first.

I want to provide a friendly reminder that the webinar, Y-DNA Discover Tool – What News Can Your Haplogroup Reveal? is free through September 5th at Legacy Family Tree Webinars and will be available in their library for subscribers thereafter.

Discover is a free Y-DNA tool provided by FamilyTreeDNA.

Anyone can use Discover. You don’t need to have taken a Y-DNA test, but the greatest benefit will be realized with Big Y-700 test results. Don’t worry about that now, though, because I explain the differences between tests in the webinar. You can get a lot out of Discover, even if you only know a base-level haplogroup.

Normally, these webinars are live, but those plans were interrupted by Hurricane Idalia.

Idalia developed so quickly – and we really weren’t sure where it was going until just a day or so in advance – or how severe it would be. It was ugly, and as I write this, Idalia is still torturing the east coast.

When I realized the possible impact, and that the probability of having both power and internet were very remote, I contacted Legacy Family Tree Webinars and discussed options.

We really didn’t want to reschedule since more than 2000 people from around the world had signed up for the webinar. We decided that the best option was to record the webinar in advance as a precaution. Then, if possible and Idalia targeted her wrath elsewhere, I would still give it live.

Needless to say, doing anything live wasn’t in the cards on Wednesday. I should add that I am safe and dry with minimal damage – just some branches and small trees down – but others nearby aren’t nearly so fortunate. Flooding was recorded in feet of water, roads are still closed to vehicles, boats rescuing people who didn’t evacuate are zipping down the flooded streets in many places, and there’s just a massive mess. Thousands of people are displaced.

However, as they say, “the show must go on,” and it did. The webinar was presented even though I couldn’t be there for Q&A. Anticipating that possibility, I recorded a lot of detail for you.

I hope I didn’t sound as rattled as I felt, because I was recording in the midst of hurricane prep and the first bands of wind and rain were already lashing the windows. I knew that we were facing a monster storm. That’s very unsettling.. All things considered, I think the webinar went quite well. I was afraid the power would go out while we were recording, but fortunately, it didn’t.

At the end of the webinar, I pulled everything from all of the Discover tools, the Block Tree, and the Group Time Tree together, then added historical migration records along with known, proven family genealogy.

Given that:

  • How did Discover do?
  • Was it useful?
  • Is it accurate?
  • How accurate?
  • What has it done for the Estes paternal line genealogy?
  • What do I know about my Estes lineage that I didn’t know before?
  • What’s the next step?
  • What can Discover do for you?

I really encourage you to tune in and take advantage of this free educational webinar through September 5th, maybe even over the Labor Day weekend.

Please feel free to share this article and information about the webinar with interested groups and organizations!!!

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Y-DNA Discover Tool – Free Webinar

You’re invited to join me for a free, live webinar about the Y-DNA Discover tool on Wednesday, August 30th, at 2 PM EDT, courtesy of Legacy Family Tree Webinars.

FamilyTreeDNA‘s Discover tool can be used with any Y-DNA haplogroup. I’ve written about Discover here and the newest feature, Globetrekker, here

Y-DNA Discover Tool – What News Can Your Haplogroup Reveal? will be free next Wednesday and for the following seven days. After that, this webinar, along with the rest of Legacy Family Tree’s extensive webinar library is available via an annual subscription of $49.95. I think my new webinar will be webinar number 2042 in their library.

A subscription also provides access to the webinar handouts, the webinar chat logs, and a subscribers-only door prize during each webinar. If you’re interested, you can subscribe here.

What’s In the Discover Webinar?

Discover is an amazing tool, but I think many people are missing ways to use it for genealogy. I’ll cover both the free Discover version and the additional functionality for Big Y testers.

Everyone can use Discover for any Y-DNA haplogroup, no matter the haplogroup source. Of course, the more granular or refined the haplogroup, the more relevant the haplogroup will be to your most recent ancestors. Y-DNA haplogroups are available through the following types of tests:

  • Autosomal at 23andMe, LivingDNA – base or midrange level haplogroup derived from target testing a few Y-DNA locations in an autosomal test. These haplogroups are generally at least a few thousand years old. Think tree branches.
  • Haplogroup estimate when taking the 12, 25, 37, 67, or 111 STR marker Y-DNA tests at FamilyTreeDNA. Think tree branches.
  • The Big-Y DNA test, also at FamilyTreeDNA, provides the most refined and detailed haplogroup. Think twigs and leaves that are very specific to your family at the ends of each larger branch.

After briefly introducing Y-DNA, how it works, and why you care, I’ll be stepping through each Discover feature and function. This includes the Group Time Tree, which isn’t part of Discover but is available through FamilyTreeDNA‘s projects and uses the Discover technology.

  • Haplogroup story – description and overview
  • Country Frequency – where this haplogroup and related haplogroups are found in the world
  • Notable Connections – the famous and infamous, and what that means to you
  • Migration Map –  short story, complete with ancient DNA sites
  • Globetrekker – animated, refined story with lots of detail and several options. Paths your ancestors may have taken to arrive where your line is first found.
  • Ancient Connections – ancient Y-DNA that anchors haplogroups
  • Time Tree – when and where haplogroups were born and how they connect
  • Ancestral Path – every step from you to Y-Adam, when and where that step occurred
  • Suggested Projects – relevant projects for collaboration (and buried hints)
  • Scientific Details –  haplogroup age estimates, age ranges, and your haplogroup’s mutations
  • Group Time Tree – for project members only – the Time Tree complete with all Big-Y testers who’ve opted-in to this project and provided a location, plus earliest known ancestors, displayed in groups
  • What you can do to help yourself

I’ll discuss using the various Discover features to understand what the information means to you, why it’s important, and how to utilize it for your genealogy. I’ll also talk about how to incorporate Block Tree information and projects.

If you’d like to listen and educate yourself, that’s great, but you might want to take this opportunity to think of a male-line brick wall you’d like to work on or learn more about. Don’t we all want to know more about every line – even if we’ve run out of known ancestors and records? Keep your focus line in mind as we apply the tools one-by-one to my Estes lineage, building evidence, during the webinar. Discover helps us peel back the veil of time.

At the end, I’ll provide hints and tips about constructing your plan of attack – how to locate testers and what to do next.

Mark your calendar, and don’t forget to convert the time to where you live. Next Wednesday, August 30, at 2 EDT. See you then!!

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If you haven’t already subscribed (it’s free,) you can receive an email whenever I publish by clicking the “follow” button on the main blog page, here.

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I receive a small contribution when you click on some of the links to vendors in my articles. This does NOT increase the price you pay but helps me to keep the lights on, and this informational blog free for everyone. Please click on the links in the articles or to the vendors below if you are purchasing products or DNA testing.

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Haplogroups: DNA SNPs Are Breadcrumbs – Follow Their Path

Recently a reader asked some great questions.

If Y-DNA is unchanged, then why isn’t the Y-DNA of every man the same today? And if it’s not the same, then how do we know that all men descend from Y-Adam? Are the scientists just guessing?

The scientists aren’t guessing, and the recent scientific innovations behind how this works is pretty amazing, so let’s unravel these questions one at a time.

The first thing we need to understand is how Y-DNA is inherited differently from autosomal DNA, and how it mutates.

First, a reminder that:

  • Y-DNA tests the Y chromosome passed from father to son in every generation, unmixed with any DNA of the mother. This article focuses on Y-DNA.
  • Mitochondrial DNA tests the mitochondria passed from mothers to all of their children, but is only passed on by the females, unmixed with the DNA of the father. This article also pertains to mitochondrial SNPS, but we will cover that more specifically later in another article.
  • Autosomal DNA is passed from both parents to their children. Each child inherits half of each parent’s autosomal DNA.

Let’s look at how this works.

Autosomal vs Y-DNA Inheritance

Click on image to enlarge

Autosomal DNA, shown here with the green (male) and pink (female) images, divides in each generation as it’s passed from the parent to their child. Each child inherits half of each parent’s autosomal DNA, meaning chromosomes 1-22. For this discussion, each descendant shown above is a male and has a Y chromosome.

This means that in the first generation, which would be the great-grandfather, about 700,000 locations of his green autosomal DNA are tested for genealogy purposes.

His female partner (pink) also has about 700,000 locations. During recombination, they each contribute about 350,000 SNPs (Single Nucleotide Polymorphisms) of autosomal DNA to their child. Their offspring then has a total of 700,000 SNPs, 350,000 green and 350,000 pink contributed by each parent.

This process is repeated for each child, whether male or female (with the exception of the X chromosome, which is beyond the scope of this article), but each child does not receive exactly the same half of their parents’ autosomal DNA. Recombination is random.

In the four generations shown above, the green autosomal DNA of generation one, the great-grandfather, has been divided and recombined three times. The original 700,000 locations of great-grandfather’s green DNA has now been whittled down to about 87,500 locations of his green DNA.

Y-DNA in the Same Generation

Looking now at the blue Y-DNA at left, the Y-DNA remains the same in each generation with the exception of one mutation approximately every two or three generations.

As you can see in the chart, in the exact same number of generations, the Y-DNA of each male, which he inherited from his father:

  • Never recombines with any DNA from the mother
  • Never divides and gets smaller in subsequent generations
  • Remains essentially unchanged in each generation

The key word here is “essentially.”

Y-DNA

The Y chromosome consists of about 59 million locations or SNPs of DNA. STR tests, Short Tandem Repeats, which are essentially insertions and deletions, test limited numbers of carefully curated markers selected for the fact that they mutate in a genealogically relevant timeframe. These markers are combined in panels of either 67 or 111 marker tests available for purchase at FamilyTreeDNA today, or historically 12, 25, 37, 67, and 111 marker panels. The STR test was the original Y-DNA test for genealogy and is still used as an introductory test or to see if a male matches a specific line, or not.

From the STR tests, in addition to matching, FamilyTreeDNA can reliably predict a relatively high-level haplogroup, or genetic clan, based on the frequency of the combinations of those marker values in specific STR locations.

SNPs are much more reliable than STRs, which tend to be comparatively unstable, mutating at an unreliable rate, and back mutating, which can be very disconcerting for genealogy. We need reliable consistency to be able to assign a male tester to a specific lineage with confidence. We can, however, find genealogically relevant matches that may be quite important, so I never disregard STR tests or testers. STR tests aren’t relevant for deeper history, nor can they reliably discern a specific lineage within a surname. SNP tests can and do.

The Big Y-700 SNP test gives us that and more, along with the earlier Big Y-500 test which scanned about 30 million locations. The Big Y-700 is a significant improvement; men can upgrade from the Big Y-500 or STR tests.

The Big Y-700 test scans about 50 million Y-DNA locations, known as the gold standard region, for all mutations. It reports 700 or more STR markers for matching, but more importantly, it scans for all SNP mutations in those 50 million locations.

All mutations are confirmed by at least five positive repeat scans and are then assigned a haplogroup name if found in two or more men.

Y-DNA Testing

If Y-DNA remained exactly the same, then the Y-DNA of men today would be entirely indistinguishable from each other – essentially all matching humankind’s first common ancestor. With no changes, Y-DNA would not be useful for genealogy. We need inherited mutations to be able to compare men and determine their level of relatedness to each other.

Fortunately, Y-DNA SNPs do mutate. Y-DNA is never divided or combined, so it stays essentially the same except for occasional mutations which are inherited by the following generations.

Using SNP markers scanned in the Big Y test, one new mutation happens on the average of every two or three generations. Of course, that means that sometimes there are no mutations for a few generations, and sometimes there are two mutations between father and son.

What this does, though, very effectively, is provide a trail of SNP mutations – breadcrumbs essentially – that we can use for matching, AND for tracking our mutations, which equate to ancestors, back in time.

Estes Male Breadcrumb Trail

I’ve tested several Estes men of known lineage, so I’m going to use this line as an example of how mutations act as breadcrumbs, allowing us to track our ancestors back in time and across the globe.

Multiple cousins in my Estes line have taken the Big Y-700 test.

My closest male cousin matches two other men on a unique mutation. That SNP has been named haplogroup R-ZS3700.

We know, based on our genealogy, that this mutation occurred in Virginia and is found in the sons of Moses Estes born in 1711.

How do we know that?

We know that because three of Moses’s descendants have tested and all three of those men have the same mutation, R-ZS3700, and none of the sons of Moses’s brothers have that mutation.

I’ve created a chart to illustrate the Estes pedigree chart, and the haplogroups assigned to those men. So, it’s a DNA pedigree chart too. This is exactly what the Big-Y DNA test does for us.

In the red-bordered block of testers, you can see the three men that all have R-ZS3700 (in red), and all are sons of Moses born in 1711. I have not typed the names of all the men in each generation because, for purposes of this illustration, names aren’t important. However, the concept and the fact that we have been able to connect them genealogically, either before or because of Y-DNA testing, is crucial.

Directly above Moses born in 1711, you can see his father Abraham born in 1647, along with Moses’ brothers at right and left; John, Richard, Sylvester, and Elisha whose descendants have taken the Big Y-700 test. Moses’s brothers’ descendants all have haplogroup R-BY490 (in blue), but NOT R-ZS3700. That tells us that the mutation responsible for R-ZS3700 happened between Abraham born in 1647, and Moses born in 1711. Otherwise, Moses’s brothers would have the mutation if his father had the mutation.

Moses’s descendants also have R-BY490, but it’s NOT the last SNP or haplogroup in their lineage. For Moses’s descendants, R-ZS3700 occurred after R-BY490.

You can see haplogroup R-BY490 boxed in blue.

We know that Moses and his father, Abraham, both have haplogroup R-BY490 because all of Abraham’s sons have this haplogroup. Additionally, we know that Abraham’s father, Silvester also had haplogroup R-BY490.

How do we know that?

Abraham’s brother, Richard’s descendant, tested and he has haplogroup R-BY490.

However, Silvester’s father, Robert born in 1555 did NOT have R-BY490, so it formed between him and his son, Silvester.

How do we know that?

Robert’s other son, Robert born in 1603 has a descendant who tested and has haplogroup R-BY482, but does NOT have R-BY490 or R-ZS3700.

All of the other Eates testers also have R-BY482, blocked in green, in addition to R-BY490, so we know that the mutation of R-BY490 developed between Robert born in 1555 and his son, Silvester born in 1600, because his other son’s descendant does not have it.

Looking at only the descent of the haplogroups, in order, we have

  • R-BY482 (green) found in Robert born in 1555 and all of his descendants.
  • R-BY490 (blue) found in Silvester born in 1600 and all of his descendants, but not his brother
  • R-ZS3700 (red) found in Moses born in 1711 and all of his descendants, but not his brothers

If we had Estes men who descend from the two additional documented generations upstream of Robert born in 1555, we might discover when R-BY482 occurred, but to date, we don’t have any additional testers from those lines.

Now that we understand the genesis of these three haplogroups in the Estes lineage, what else can we discover through our haplogroup breadcrumbs?

The Discover Reports

By entering the haplogroup in the Discover tool, either on the public page, here, or clicking on Discover on your personal page at FamilyTreeDNA if you’ve taken the Big-Y test, you will see several reports for your haplogroup.

I strongly suggest reviewing each category, because they cumulatively act as chapters to the book of your haplogroup story, but we’re going to skip directly to the breadcrumbs, which is called the Ancestral Path.

The Ancestral Path begins with your haplogroup in Line 1 then lists the first upstream or parent haplogroup in Line 2. In this case, the haplogroup I entered is R-ZS3700.

You can see the estimated age of the haplogroup, meaning when it formed, at about 1700 CE. Moses Estes who was born in 1711 is the first Estes man to carry haplogroup R-ZS3700, so that’s extremely close.

Line 2, R-BY490 occurred or was born about 1650, and we know that it actually occurred between Robert and Silvester born in 1600, so that’s close too.

Scanning down to Line 3, R-BY482 is estimated to have occurred about 1500 CE, and we know for sure it had occurred by 1555 when Robert was born.

We see the parent haplogroup of R-BY487 on Line 4, dating from about 750 CE. Of course, if more men test, it’s possible that more haplogroups will emerge between BY482 and BY487, forming a new branch. Given the time involved, those men wouldn’t be expected to carry the Estes surname, as surnames hadn’t yet been adopted in that timeframe.

Moving down to Line 9, we see R-ZP18 from 2250 BCE, or about 4250 years ago. Looking at the right column, there’s one ancient sample with that haplogroup. The location of ancient samples anchors haplogroups definitively in a particular location at a specific time.

Haplogroup by haplogroup, step by step, we can follow the breadcrumbs back in time to Y-Adam, the first homo sapiens male known to have descendants today, meaning he’s the MRCA, or most recent common ancestor for all men.

Neanderthals and Denisovans follow, but their Y-DNA is only available through ancient samples. They have no known direct male survivors, but someday, maybe someone will test and their Y-DNA will be found to descend from Neanderthals or Denisovans.

Now that we know when those haplogroups occurred, how did our ancestors get from Africa 232,000 years ago to Kent, England, in the 1400s? What path did they take?

The new Globetrekker tool answers that question.

The Breadcrumb Trail

In Globetrekker, each haplogroup’s location is placed by a combination of testers’ results, their identified earliest known ancestor (EKA) country and location, combined with ancient samples, climatic factors like glaciers and sea levels, and geographic features. You can read about Globetrekker here and here.

To view the Globetrekker tool, you must sign it to an account that has taken the Big Y test. It’s a tool exclusively provided for Big-Y testers.

You can click at the bottom of your Globetrekker map to play the animated video.

Beginning in Africa, our ancestors began their journey with Y-Adam, then migrated through the Near East, South Asia, East Asia, then west through central Asia into Europe. The Estes ancestors crossed the English Channel and migrated around what is now England before settling in Deal, on the east coast.

Clicking on any haplogroup provides a description of that haplogroup and how it was placed in that location.

Enabling the option for ancient DNA shows those locations as well, near the haplogroups they represent when the animation is playing.

Clicking on the shovel icon explains about that particular ancient DNA sample, what is known, and how it relates to the haplogroup it’s connected to by a dotted line on the map.

Pretty cool, huh!!

End to End

As you can see from this example, Big Y results are an end-to-end tool.

We can use the Big Y-700 haplogroups very successfully for recent genealogy – assigning testers to specific lines in a genealogy timeframe. Some haplogroups are so specific that, without additional information, we can place a man in his exact generation, or within a generation or two.

Not shown in my Estes pedigree chart is an adoptee with a different surname, of course. We know that he descends from Moses’s line because he carries haplogroup R-ZS3700, but we are still working on the more recent generations using autosomal DNA to connect him accurately.  If more of Moses’s descendants tested, we could probably place him very specifically. Without the Big Y-700 test, he wouldn’t know his biological surname or that he descends from Moses. That’s a HUGE breakthrough for him.

There’s more about the Estes line to learn, however.

If our Estes cousins tested their brothers, uncles or other Estes males in their line, they would likely receive a more refined haplogroup that’s relevant only to that line.

Using Big-Y test results, we can place men within a couple of generations and identify a common ancestor, even when all men within a haplogroup don’t know their genealogical lineage. Using those same test results, we can follow the breadcrumbs all 50 steps back in time more than 230,000 years to Y-Adam.

End to end, the Big-Y test coupled with breadcrumbs in Discover, Globetrekker, and other amazing tools is absolutely the most informative and powerful test available to male testers for their paternal line genealogy.

These amazing innovations tracking more than 50,000 haplogroups across the globe answer the original questions about how we know.

The more people who take or upgrade to the Big Y-700 test, the more haplogroup branches will be added, and the more refined the breadcrumbs, ages, and maps will become. In other words, there’s still more to learn.

Test if you haven’t, and check back often for new matches and breadcrumbs, aka updates.

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If you haven’t already subscribed (it’s free,) you can receive an email whenever I publish by clicking the “follow” button on the main blog page, here.

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I receive a small contribution when you click on some of the links to vendors in my articles. This does NOT increase the price you pay but helps me to keep the lights on and this informational blog free for everyone. Please click on the links in the articles or to the vendors below if you are purchasing products or DNA testing.

Thank you so much.

DNA Purchases and Free Uploads

Genealogy Products and Services

My Book

 

Genealogy Books

  • com – Lots of wonderful genealogy research books
  • American Ancestors – Wonderful selection of genealogy books

Genealogy Research

 

 

Globetrekker – A New Feature for Big Y Customers From FamilyTreeDNA

FamilyTreeDNA recently released Globetrekker, a great new feature for Big Y customers as part of the Discover tools. You can read about the Discover tools, here.

What Is Globetrekker?

Globetrekker is a new mapping feature that maps your Y-DNA ancestral migration path from Y-Adam in Africa born about 200,000 years ago to where your direct paternal ancestors are found most recently based on:

  • The earliest known ancestor (EKA) locations of you, your matches and other testers
  • Ancient DNA samples
  • Various geographic criteria including elevation, migration corridors, sea levels, and glaciers.

This data-driven model also includes sea levels over time and some climate factors, such as glaciation. Clearly, our ancestors needed access to clean water, food and an environment where they weren’t going to freeze to death. If they had to choose between migrating along a lower level coastal region, or heading straight across the high mountains into the unknown, it’s more likely that they took the lower elevation coastal route with assured food.

Globetrekker displays the “most likely” corridors for you to review.

While you only see your Y-DNA line initially, the map includes 48,000 migration paths for all haplogroups spread across each continent. If you’ve taken the Big Y test, you can view any of the haplogroups in Discover.

And, there’s an integrated tree browser, too.

You can read FamilyTreeDNA’s blog article, written by Goran Runfeldt, head of R&D, here.

Please Note

  • Everyone must sign into their own account to use the new Globetrekker tool. To use the rest of the Discover features, everyone can use the public version of the tool, but Globetrekker is for Big Y customers only, which is why you need to sign in. You’ll also receive more information in other categories, such as Notable and Ancient Connections, if you access Discover through your account. The free public version is limited.
  • If you’re a project administrator and you normally view your project members’ results through your project (with member-granted authorization, of course) you can’t do that yet with Globetrekker.
  • This means that every tester has to sign on using their own kit number and password. FamilyTreeDNA is working on Group Administrator access, so don’t despair if you normally depend on your volunteer administrator to handle things for you and explain. It’s coming.
  • The migration map includes only pre-Columbian migrations. In other words, if your EKA is not Native American and is brick-walled in the US, you won’t see it on the map. You’ll see your closest haplogroup location before about 1500.
  • These routes will change over time with additional testers whose results will shift and refine the paths.

Best Thing You Can Do

The best things you can do, aside from taking (or upgrading to) a Big Y-700 test are:

  • Complete your earliest known ancestor (EKA) information.
  • Be SURE to include a country AND a location of origin because that’s the data Globetrekker draws from.
  • If your cousins test too, you may be assigned a new, more refined haplogroup, so recruit people. If you don’t know anyone specific, looking at your STR matches is a good resource to find candidates.

Adding Your EKA

To add your EKA and their geographic location, sign in to your account and click on your name, which will display a menu.

Select Account Settings.

Select Genealogy, then Earliest Known Ancestors, then complete the information, including Country, which assigns the flag, among other things. Click on update location to complete or change this location.

Search or place the pin in the correct location. Then click Save.

There are three very important pieces of EKA information that need to be completed to reap all the benefits of the Matches Map, Discover, the Time Tree, the Group Time Tree that includes ancestors, and Globetrekker.

  1. EKA Name and birth/death date
  2. Country of Origin field using the dropdown (Please note Native American entries for proven Native ancestors/haplogroups)
  3. Ancestral Location for specific locations for the Matches Map

While you’re here, enter your direct matrilineal ancestor’s information too – that’s your mother’s mother’s mother’s line, which you’ll need for mitochondrial DNA..

Then, click the orange Save button at the bottom of the page.

Your map location will also appear on your STR Matches Map. You may find relevant matches there, even if they haven’t taken the Big Y test.

There’s immense power in collaboration.

I often reach out to STR panel (12-111 markers) matches and men with the same or similar surnames, asking if they will consider upgrading to the Big Y, sometimes providing testing scholarships. The only way to obtain the most refined haplogroup possible and the most accurate migration path is for multiple people in the same lineage to test AND complete the location information.

Now that we’ve completed our housekeeping, let’s look at Globetrekker.

Globetrekker Quick Test Drive

I’ll be writing about Globetrekker results in detail soon, but for right now, let’s just take a quick spin.

Click on any image to enlarge

Sign in to your account and click on the Discover Haplogroup Reports under Y-DNA Results and Tools.

You’ll see your Haplogroup Story, of course, and on the left side, you’ll see the Globetrekker link. Click on Globetrekker.

It Takes Two to Tango

Please note the introduction at the top of the Globetrekker page, and don’t get drawn into the beautiful map without reading this part first, along with the Release Announcement, Caveats, and Survey. Please take the survey after you’ve used Globetrekker.

Click on image to enlarge

  • In order to RECEIVE a detailed haplogroup, it takes at least two people with the variant (mutation) that is then named and becomes the same haplogroup. This is why we recommend that men ask a cousin from the same paternal line to test, or even a father/brother/uncle.
  • To MAP the location of a haplogroup on Globetrekker, it takes at least two people with the same haplogroup who have selected a location. Looking at my cousin’s results, I had already entered his EKA and location, but apparently his Big Y matches have not, so there are not two men with R-ZS3700 who have locations specified. I need to contact his matches.

Be sure to enter all of your EKA info. If your cousins have tested, they need to enter their information as well.

  • Globetrekker cannot use results for the mapping function without locations.
  • Globetrekker cannot use non-Native American haplogroups that are recorded with a location in the Americas. Globetrekker does provide Native American mapping in North and South America when the haplogroup is Native and a location is provided.
  • Globetrekker CAN utilize coordinates in the Americas, but a country of origin in Europe or elsewhere pre-Columbus. Globetrekker defaults to the country of origin. Please make sure this information is accurate and not just a guess or oral history.

Locations or at least countries need to be as accurate as possible. If there are only two men with a specific haplogroup, for example, and one enters England and the other enters France, Globetrekker tries to plot the location of that haplogroup someplace in the middle. In this circumstance, probably neither person is happy – both complaining about inaccuracy. Yet another reason why it’s a good thing to help your fellow genealogists.

Therefore, if you notice that you have a Big Y match on either your Big Y match list, or your STR (12-111 panel) matches, and they don’t have an EKA and country listed, with a location displayed on the matches map, PLEASE email them and ask nicely if they will add that info. You can send them a link to this article to explain why providing that information is critically important for them AND the people they match, just like your information is crucial to them. Without location data, Globetrekker paths can’t be calculated correctly, and sometimes not at all. The more data, the greater the accuracy.

After you enter your EKA information and after Big Y results are back, it will be a week or so before Discover and Globetrekker are up to date. Discover is updated weekly, and if a new haplogroup is added, Globetrekker will be up to date the following week.

Drum Roll Please…..

Here it is. The new highly refined Globetrekker migration map. It’s a beauty!

Your end-of-line haplogroup, or the closest one that can be calculated, will be shown in orange. In this case, it’s R-BY490 (circa 1650 CE) because the location of R-ZS3700 (circa 1700 CE) can’t be calculated.

On the map, you can see the various haplogroups that are upstream of haplogroup R-BY490, meaning parent haplogroups.

The path from Y-Adam in Africa is mapped, with the color changing to represent the birth of each major haplogroup in the migration path.

For example, I clicked on the pin for haplogroup CF, which expanded that haplogroup to CF-P143 and showed information about how the haplogroup pin was located on the map – plus the age and sea level difference at the time.

Scroll down on the map until you see the play button. Clicking on that button animates the migration path, beginning with Y-Adam, then progressing to the most current pre-Columbian migration.

In this case, I paused the video at the formation of haplogroup R1.

Notice the glaciation that both forms and recedes. Clearly, your ancestors weren’t living there during glaciation, but humans moved into those areas after the glaciers thawed and retreated.

You may be surprised at the path your ancient ancestors took, so I encourage you to spend some time with this map, reviewing the approximate path and your parental haplogroups with an open mind.

A legend is located in the far right upper corner to help explain the map details, including Ocean Currents and the various sea level colors.

Notice Doggerland, in dark green, which was a land mass when some haplogroups arrived in what is now the British Isles. Doggerland flooded sometime between 6500 and 6200 BCE, or about 8500 years ago, so it’s sea today. In other coastal locations, some previous land areas are covered by water today. Note the Baltic above, for example. Truthfully, that explains a lot. I knew about Doggerland but not about many of the other coastal regions around the world.

Pay close attention to what’s happening on the map. I noticed that my red pin for the current haplogroup is found in Deal, England, but so is an earlier haplogroup, so the later pin obscures the earlier pin. I enlarged the map and paused the video at 1400 CE so the red pin doesn’t form yet, then clicked on haplogroup R-Z290 that arrived from across the English Channel.

The R-Z290 pin location tells me that my Estes male ancestors arrived from continental Europe around 4650 years ago. My assumption (there’s that word again) had been that the original Estes ancestors arrived, then stayed right in Deal, a coastal village very near Dover, the closest point to the European mainland. According to Globetrekker, that wasn’t at all what happened.

I was initially somewhat skeptical, but then looking at all of the upstream haplogroups, I realized that those 17 haplogroups upstream of R-BY490 had to get into the other parts of the British Isles somehow – and my ancestor clearly descends from those men.

Could my ancestors have crossed back over to the European mainland at some point, then recrossed into Deal? Yes, of course, but without any genetic or other evidence, that’s speculation ONLY, with nothing at all to support it. In other words, that speculation would be based on what I believed all these years and nothing more.

The data-driven genetic scientific evidence tells us that our Estes ancestor arrived in what is today England about 4500 years ago. As you can see, there are a total of 17 points in England that have been reliably placed, not just one or two that might be open to speculation. Additionally, we have ancient DNA evidence.

Notice the functions at the top of the map. Turn on Ancient Connections. You’ll see the little shovels appear when their timeframe and location are relevant to the map migration, then disappear when it isn’t.

Pause the map again, and click on the shovel to display relevant information about the archaeology dig that produced Y-DNA results of sufficient quality to be included. Those ancient samples often anchor haplogroups in a known place at a specific time.

While you’re enjoying different views, try the other options at the top of the Globetrekker map.

Integrated Tree Browser

Scroll down beneath the map to view the integrated tree browser.

This is VERY cool because the tree browser moves in tandem with the map above.

You can see that the migration map shows R-BY487, and on the timeline below, R-BY487 is showing at the top, along with the downstream haplogroups.

R-BY482 (circa 1500 CE), R-BY490 (circa 1650 CE), and R-ZS3700 (circa 1700 CE) are all Estes surname haplogroups. Prior to that, R-BY487 (circa 750 CE) has no associated surname. Surnames hadn’t been adopted yet, but we know approximately where they were living just the same. We can now reference the appropriate historical period in England to determine what was happening when they lived there.

Why the Big Y?

The Big Y test does five things extremely well:

  1. Scans millions of locations on the Y chromosome looking for mutations that, when compared with other Big Y testers, places men conclusively on their branch, and sometimes on their twig and leaf of the Y-DNA haplotree. Men carrying previously undiscovered mutations from the same line establish a newly named haplogroup.
  2. Unambiguously matches testers with men who descend from a common ancestor. SNPs, the mutations measured in the Big Y test are not subject to back-mutations and other occasional instabilities that plague the STR markers in the 12-111 panel tests.
  3. Provides matching to both STR and SNP markers, allowing genealogical connections to men who have taken either type of test. Some people who have taken STR tests have either chosen not to upgrade (yet) or may have passed away. With the Big Y test, those legacy tests, some of which are more than 20 years old, are still useful.
  4. Provides an estimated date of when the common ancestor lived.
  5. Reaches reliably back in time, before the age of surnames, allowing testers to peer into the past based on a combination of genetics and history.

In other words, the Big Y test provides the best of both worlds, genealogy for close surname matches and anthropology for ancient matching and migration.

Lots to Explore

Globetrekker results are available to men who took either the Big Y-500 or the Big Y-700. Those who took the Big Y-500 can upgrade for significantly more refinement and potentially new haplogroups. Men who have not yet tested, or who just ordered one of the STR panels can upgrade to learn about your matches, your haplogroup, and the migration path through history your ancestor trod to arrive where your EKA lived.

I’m looking forward to reviewing all of the kits I manage that have taken the Big Y test. Let me know what you think about your Globetrekker results, and be sure to complete the survey and let FamilyTreeDNA know too.

If you’d like to learn more about your Big Y results, be sure to check out both Discover and Globetrekker. Discover is public, but Big Y testers will receive more information. Globetrekker is for Big Y customers only.

Remember, both will change as more people test and new results come in, so check back often.

The FamilyTreeDNA Big Y Facebook Group

A few weeks ago, FamilyTreeDNA introduced their FamilyTreeDNA Big Y Group on Facebook. As of today, just shy of 8000 people have joined. You do have to agree to follow the rules, but you don’t need to have taken a Big Y test. Lots of people join to learn, including many women who manage Y-DNA tests for family members or people who just want to understand more about one of the three types of tests for genetic genealogy.

You’re welcome to join too, here.

The Summer Sale

Several people have asked when the Big Y or the upgrades would be on sale. The summer sale runs from August 1-31, and all Y-DNA tests and upgrades are included, here.

If you’ve already taken one of the STR panel tests, or the Big Y-500, the Big Y-700 is less expensive when you upgrade. Just sign in to your account and click on the orange Add Ons and Upgrades button at the top right of your page, then on “Upgrades.”

Click here to purchase or upgrade.

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Gateway Ancestors Leading to Royal and Noble Lines

Many people descend from either royalty or nobility. Of course, figuring out if you’re one of those people, and how you connect, is the challenge. Ancestors who have been proven to connect to royalty or nobility, often across the pond, are known as gateway ancestors.

Back in 2013, geneticists Peter Ralph and Graham Coop, in a paper in Nature, showed that almost all Europeans are descended from the same ancestors. In essence, everyone who lived in the ninth century and left any descendants is the ancestor of almost every living person with European heritage today. That includes Charlemagne and many noble or royal families who collectively have millions of descendants.

Before we talk more about how to find and identify gateway ancestors, let me tell you about the Vernoe/de Vernon family who lived in Vernon, France in the 1000s and 1100s. If you recall, in 1066, William the Conqueror of Normandy became the English King following the Battle of Hastings. Many of the French nobles, especially from Normandy, subsequently became the new noble class of England. England and France are inextricably connected.

William de Vernon, or, “of Vernon,” (born circa 1021 – died before 1089,) lived in Vernon and had his children baptized in the local Catholic Church, the Collégiale Notre-Dame de Vernon, dedicated in 1072 to “the Holy Mother of God.” William’s sons fought with William the Conqueror, and I descend from two of his children, Adela and Richard.

I recently returned from a trip to France where I was fortunate enough to visit the churches where some of my noble families were baptized, worshipped, or were buried.

I was very excited to visit Vernon, a beautiful, quaint village in Normandy on the Seine River which was the main “road” of western France. Come along with me!

Historic Vernon

We’re visiting the medieval church in Vernon, but many of the churches in the villages scattered throughout Europe hail from this period and have many of the same characteristics.

This glorious Gothic church stands sentry just up the street a block or so from the banks of the Seine.

Being able to literally walk in my ancestor’s footsteps was incredibly moving, as was sitting in the church where they sat, or stood, depending on their status.

The incredibly beautiful Gothic church beckons parishioners and visitors alike.

If you’re fortunate and time your arrival correctly, you may hear the church bells summoning worshipers, just like they did all those generations ago. I was extremely lucky.

Close your eyes, and you can hear the local peasants and nobility alike, hurrying along the cobblestone streets to services.

The church may be open, or a service may be getting ready to commence, and you can join in, just as your ancestors did.

These historic structures have withstood the ravages of time, and the passageways remind us of those who walked these steps hundreds of years ago. Their descendants still climb them today.

Much of the stained glass is original, at least for the churches that escaped both fire and the bombings of WWII.

While most of the churches remain Catholic, everyone is welcome to light a candle for goodwill and say a prayer, if you’re so inclined. I like to participate in the customs that my ancestors did. It connects me to them in a spiritual way. Often the side chapels have candles burning on altars, with the flames flickering beautifully, harkening back to distant times.

The small donation for the candle contributes to the maintenance of the church.

Fonts, holding holy water, and piscinas are in evidence throughout the church, especially in the little side chapels and near the doors.

Piscinas are usually shallow basins or decorative divots in the wall used for washing communion vessels or disposing of holy water or consecrated sacramental wine. There is a hole in the bottom allowing the liquid to drain into the earth inside the sheltering walls of the church, so that the sacred liquids remain in consecrated ground.

The church was always located in the center of the town, as it was the center of the life of the residents. Baptisms, marriages, communion, confessions, and funerals all took place there, as did regular sermons, given in Latin by the priest, encouraging their flock to remain true to the tenets of the Catholic faith.

Small streets, sometimes only a few feet wide, separated the neighboring houses from the church.

Many of the beautiful Medieval half-timbered buildings still stand, especially in the small villages like Vernon. The street in front of the church leads uphill to the remains of the castle, including the keep.

If your ancestor lived here, they walked these uneven cobblestone streets and were very likely in these very buildings, although some structures, like the castle, are in ruins today.

This is known as Philippe Auguste’s Keep. He was the King of France from 1180-1223. The French Kings prior to Philippe were known as the kings of the Franks.

We could see the castle and walls from a distance, but we had difficulty finding it among the maze of ancient streets, some of which are closed to through traffic today because they aren’t wide enough for vehicles or because modern buildings have been built across some ancient pathways.

The land along the old city wall has been reclaimed for vineyards, along with their ever-present roses that alert vinedressers to the presence of pests. Much like the canary in the coal mine.

I’m sure that at the time my ancestors lived there, all homes were within the protective city walls, and the hillsides were lush with vineyards. Wine was much safer to drink than water which could easily be contaminated by either animals or humans, delivering dysentery and cholera.

Many times, you’ll find portions of the old city wall built into or closely adjacent current structures. In some locations, the old walls are incorporated into the interior of contemporary buildings. This practice isn’t unusual, but normal in Roman-age Medieval towns and cities.

The walls were defensive, of course. Notice how thick the walls were, some as much as 10 feet thick.

Portions of old city walls or remains of historically significant buildings may simply be free-standing, part of the everyday life of the current residents, many of whom are probably related to the people who lived here hundreds of years ago.

History is in evidence everywhere!

By Philippe Alès – Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=35337173

Today, pillars of the old medieval bridge crossing the Seine remain. Historically, bridges were difficult to build across large expanses of water, so Vernon was strategically important, in part because it had a bridge.

The old mill remains perched upon the first piling that connects the bridge to the land across the river from Vernon, very close to Monet’s famous gardens. A newer castle is mostly hidden behind the trees, with the white limestone cliffs soaring above the Seine.

Vernon today, viewed from the Seine waterway at the approximate location of the old medieval bridge near the old mill. The church can be seen at left, and the castle keep, at right, with the flags flying on top.

Controlling passage across the river and defending the village from invaders arriving on the river were priorities.

Whoever controlled the rivers controlled access to everything, ruled the people, and controlled the economy.

Finding a Gateway Ancestor

How do you find a noble or royal link, and how do you know that your connection is accurate?

Great questions.

In my case, my Muncy (Munsy, Munsey) line out of Lee County, Virginia, and Claiborne County, Tennessee, works its way back in time to Sarah Ludlow.

Sarah Ludlow’s father is a gateway ancestor – meaning the first ancestor to immigrate whose lineage is documented to descend from royal or noble lines.

As you can see, Sarah’s line quickly connects with Edith de Windsor, of the House of Windsor. Yes, this is the lineage of Queen Elizabeth II as well as the current King Charles III. The good news is that once you’ve connected, there are many well-documented resources for noble lines.

In this case, I’m using WikiTree to view the direct relationship between Edith (de) Windsor and William (de) Vernon.

Due to their age, some ancestors’ profiles are managed by the Magna Carta Project or the Medieval Project with specific training and documentation requirements.

Strategy

You, of course, are responsible for doing the research to connect back to the gateway ancestor(s) whom others have connected back further in line.

In order to connect with a peerage line of some sort, you generally need to work your proven genealogy back several generations. In the US, this normally means into the 1600s or early 1700s.

I caution skepticism about personal online trees. You might want to use those as hints, but copy/paste is far too easy, so don’t. You never really know what the other person did, unless you know them and they are an expert. The good news is that genealogists have several good resources available.

I would suggest beginning by comparing your end-of-line ancestors to the gateway ancestors listed on these sites, then check out the books from both Genealogical.com and American Ancestors.

Noble Lineage Resources

There are several resources available to identify or connect with gateway ancestors and noble lineages.

It’s always wonderful when you find a noble or notable connection because it often means the work has been done for you – although – as always, verify.

Research and Reference Books

If you think you might be or wonder if you are descended from Charlemagne, Genealogical.com wrote a wonderful blog article that includes several of their books:

Check out Genealogical.com’s books here.

American Ancestors has a nice selection too, including these collections:

View their books, here.

Y-DNA

Of course, I had to check to see if the Y-DNA of the Vernon family line is represented, and lucky for me, it is.

The Varner DNA Project includes the surname Vernon, and the volunteer administrators have created a James Vernon (born circa 1616 in England) subgroup.

Using that information, plus the other earliest known ancestors, we can determine that this lineage represents the de Vernon family of Vernon, France with haplogroup J-FT118973. Thanks to Y-DNA matching, men today can figure out how they fit into this family.

These very refined haplogroups and high-resolution matching are only available through the Big Y-700 DNA test at FamilyTreeDNA.

Using the FamilyTreeDNA Discover tool, we learn that this haplogroup was formed about the year 1569, so well after the lineage was established in England.

The Ancient Connections tell us that other men whose haplogroups are related to the Vernon haplogroup are found in:

  • Albania and Serbia, and share a common ancestor about 1350 BCE (or about 3350 years ago) in the Bronze Age
  • Montenegro, Yorkshire (England,) and Hungary about 1500 BCE
  • Rome, Montenegro, Croatia, and Lower Saxony (Germany,) twice, about 1950 BCE.

Looking at these locations on a map, it appears that the Vernon haplogroup, which of course wouldn’t adopt the Vernon surname for another two thousand years, appear to have migrated along the Mediterranean coastline, then perhaps either worked their way into Germany and England, or followed the coastline all the way around Spain. The new Globetrekker tool which will be released from FamilyTreeDNA soon (you didn’t hear that from me), will provide a LOT more specific information.

Of course, we’ll never be able to follow the paper trail or even historical genealogy much beyond William de Vernon who would have been called by the place name where he lived, which morphed into his surname. However, using his descendants’ Y-DNA haplogroup, available as a result of the Big Y-700 test, we can reach MUCH further back in time, unveiling the distant past of the Vernon male ancestors.

Your Turn

Who are your gateway, noble, and royal ancestors? What can you discover?

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I receive a small contribution when you click on some of the links to vendors in my articles. This does NOT increase the price you pay but helps me to keep the lights on and this informational blog free for everyone. Please click on the links in the articles or to the vendors below if you are purchasing products or DNA testing.

Thank you so much.

DNA Purchases and Free Uploads

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FamilyTreeDNA’s New Big-Y Group on Facebook

FamilyTreeDNA recently created a private Big Y Facebook group.

This group is different than others because it’s focused solely on the Big Y product and how to use it for genealogy, and it’s run by FamilyTreeDNA. Additionally, several knowledgeable community members are administrators and moderators. (Full disclosure – I’m a moderator.)

The new group has been around for only a few days, and already there are some very interesting postings.

For example, I asked earlier in the day how people go about recruiting men, especially from other countries, to take a Big Y test. Everyone who lives in a diaspora region wants to know where their ancestors are from. We want to connect with our homeland, find their communities, and, if we are lucky, walk in their footsteps.

In the past four hours, there have been 13 very well-thought-out responses that include several ideas and examples. I encourage you to join and participate. Here’s the link to the Big Y group, and here’s the link to that posting. Perhaps you have an idea to add, you need ideas, or both.

You don’t have to be a male or to have taken a Big Y test to join, but you do have to answer questions. Please don’t invite your friends to join because people must request to join themselves to be able to answer the mandatory questions.

Anyone who does not answer all of the questions will not be approved. We are trying to restrict admission to non-trolls and people who are actually interested in the topic at hand to assure a good experience for everyone.

I’m very excited about this new educational opportunity. It’s unusual for a vendor to create a resource where you are interacting with their staff, so take a Big Y test, or purchase one for your toughest lineage, and join the Big Y Group. Please either use this direct link to join, or be sure you are joining the group with the image, above, because there are a couple with similar names.

We are already having fun, and collaboration is often the key to success!

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I receive a small contribution when you click on some of the links to vendors in my articles. This does NOT increase the price you pay but helps me to keep the lights on and this informational blog free for everyone. Please click on the links in the articles or to the vendors below if you are purchasing products or DNA testing.

Thank you so much.

DNA Purchases and Free Uploads

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Which DNA Test Should I Buy? And Why?

Which DNA test should I buy, and why?

I receive questions like this often. As a reminder, I don’t take private clients anymore, which means I don’t provide this type of individual consulting or advice. However, I’m doing the next best thing! In this article, I’m sharing the step-by-step process that I utilize to evaluate these questions so you can use the process too.

It’s important to know what questions to ask and how to evaluate each situation to arrive at the best answer for each person.

Here’s the question I received from someone I’ll call John. I’ve modified the wording slightly and changed the names for privacy.

I’m a male, and my mother was born in Charleston, SC. My maternal grandmother’s maiden name was Jones and a paternal surname was Davis. The family was supposed to have been Black, Dutch, Pennsylvania Dutch, and Scots-Irish…only once was I told I was 3/16 Indian, with Davis being 3/4 and Jones being full Indian.

Do I have enough reasonable information to buy a test, and which one?

Please note that it’s common for questions to arrive without all the information you need to provide a sound answer – so it’s up to you to ask those questions and obtain clarification.

Multiple Questions

There are actually multiple questions here, so let me parse this a bit.

  1. John never mentioned what his testing goal was.
  2. He also never exactly said how the paternal line of Davis was connected, so I’ve made an assumption. For educational purposes, it doesn’t matter because we’re going to walk through the evaluation process, which is the same regardless.
  3. John did not include a tree or a link to a tree, so I created a rudimentary tree to sort through this. I need the visuals and normally just sketch it out on paper quickly.
  4. Does John have enough information to purchase a test?
  5. If so, which test?

There is no “one size fits all” answer, so let’s discuss these one by one.

Easy Answers First

The answer to #4 is easy.

Anyone with any amount of information can purchase a DNA test. Adoptees do it all the time, and they have no prior information.

So, yes, John can purchase a test.

The more difficult question is which test, because that answer depends on John’s goals and whether he’s just looking for some quick information or really wants to delve into genealogy and learn. Neither approach is wrong.

Many people think they want a quick answer –  and then quickly figure out that they really want to know much more about their ancestors.

I wrote an article titled DNA Results – First Glances at Ethnicity and Matching for new testers, here.

Goals

Based on what John said, I’m going to presume his goals are probably:

  • To prove or disprove the family oral history of Black, Dutch, Pennsylvania Dutch (which is actually German,) Scots-Irish, and potentially Native American.
  • John didn’t mention actual genealogy, which would include DNA matches and trees, so we will count that as something John is interested in secondarily. However, he may need genealogy records to reach his primary goal.

If you’re thinking, “The process of answering this seemingly easy question is more complex than I thought,” you’d be right.

Ethnicity in General

It sounds like John is interested in ethnicity testing. Lots of people think that “the answer” will be found there – and sometimes they are right. Often not so much. It depends.

The great news is that John really doesn’t need any information at all to take an autosomal DNA test, and it doesn’t matter if the test-taker is male or female.

To calculate each tester’s ethnicity, every testing company compiles their own reference populations, and John will receive different results at each of the major companies. Each company updates their ethnicity results from time to time as well, and they will change.

Additionally, each company provides different tools for their customers.

The ethnicity results at different companies generally won’t match each other exactly, and sometimes the populations look quite different.

Normally, DNA from a specific ancestor can be found for at least 5 or 6 generations. Of course, that means their DNA, along with the DNA from all of your other ancestors is essentially combined in a communal genetic “pot” of your chromosomes, and the DNA testing company needs to sort it out and analyze your DNA for ethnicity.

DNA descended from ancestors, and their populations, further back in people’s trees may not be discerned at all using autosomal DNA tests.

A much more specific “ethnicity” can be obtained for both the Y-DNA line, which is a direct patrilineal line for men (blue arrow,) and the mitochondrial DNA line (pink arrows,) which is a direct matrilineal line for everyone, using those specific tests.

We will discuss both of those tests after we talk about the autosomal tests available from the four major genealogy DNA testing companies. All of these tools can and should be used together.

Let’s Start with Native American

Let’s evaluate the information that John provided.

John was told that he “was 3/16 Indian, with Davis being 3/4 and Jones being full Indian.”

We need to evaluate this part of his question slightly differently.

I discussed this in the article, Ancestral DNA Percentages – How Much of Them is in You?

First, we need to convert generations to 16ths.

You have two ancestors in your parent’s generation, four in your grandparents, and so forth. You have 16 great-great-grandparents. So, if John was 3/16th Native, then three of his great-great-grandparents would have been fully Native, or an equivalent percentage. In other words, six ancestors in that generation could have been half-Native. Based on what John said, they would have come from his mother’s side of the tree. John is fortunate to have that much information to work with.

He told us enough about his tree that we can evaluate the statement that he might be 3/16ths Native.

Here’s the tree I quickly assembled in a spreadsheet based on John’s information.

His father, at left, is not part of the equation based on the information John provided.

On his mother’s side, John said that Grandfather Davis is supposed to be three-quarters Native, which translates to 12/16ths. Please note that it would be extremely beneficial to find a Y-DNA tester from his Davis line, like one of his mother’s brothers, for example.

John said that his Grandmother Jones is supposed to be 100% Native, so 16/16ths.

Added together, those sum to 28/32, which reduces down to 14/16th or 7/8th for John’s mother.

John would have received half of his autosomal DNA from his mother and half from his non-Native father. That means that if John’s father is 100% non-Native, John would be half of 14/16ths or 7/16ths, so just shy of half Native.

Of course, we know that we don’t always receive exactly 50% of each of our ancestors’ DNA (except for our parents,) but we would expect to see something in the ballpark of 40-45% Native for John if his grandmother was 100% Native and his grandfather was 75%.

Using simple logic here, for John’s grandmother to be 100% Native, she would almost assuredly have been a registered tribal member, and the same if his grandfather was 75% Native. I would think that information would be readily available and well-known to the family – so I doubt that this percentage is accurate. It would be easy to check, though, on various census records during their lifetimes where they would likely have been recorded as “Indian.” They might have been in the special “Indian Census” taken and might be living on a reservation.

It should also be relatively easy to find their parents since all family members were listed every ten years in the US beginning with the 1850 census.

The simple answer is that if John’s grandparents had as much Native as reported, he would be more than 3/16th – so both of these factoids cannot simultaneously be accurate. But that does NOT mean neither is accurate.

John could be 7/8th or 40ish%, 3/16th or 18ish%, or some other percentage. Sometimes, where there is smoke, there is fire. And that seems to be the quandary John is seeking to resolve.

Would  Ethnicity/Population Tests Show This Much Native?

Any of the four major testing companies would show Native for someone whose percentage would be in the 40% or 18% ballpark.

The easiest ethnicities to tell apart from one another are continental-level populations. John also stated that he thinks he may also have Black ancestry, plus Dutch, Pennsylvania Dutch (German), and Scots-Irish. It’s certainly possible to verify that using genealogy, but what can DNA testing alone tell us?

How far back can we expect to find ethnicities descending from particular ancestors?

In this table, you can see at each generation how many ancestors you have in that generation, plus the percentage of DNA, on average, you would inherit from each ancestor.

All of the major DNA testing companies can potentially pick up small trace percentages, but they don’t always. Sometimes one company does, and another doesn’t. So, if John has one sixth-generation Native American ancestor, he would carry about 1.56% Native DNA, if any.

  • Sometimes a specific ethnicity is not found because, thanks to random recombination, you didn’t inherit any of that DNA from those ancestors. This is why testing your parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, and siblings can be very important. They share your same ancestors and may have inherited DNA that you didn’t that’s very relevant to your search.
  • Sometimes it’s not found because the reference populations and algorithms at that testing company aren’t able to detect that population or identify it accurately, especially at trace levels. Every DNA testing company establishes their own reference populations and writes internal, proprietary ethnicity analysis algorithms.
  • Sometimes it’s not found because your ancestor wasn’t Native or from that specific population.
  • Sometimes it’s there, but your population is called something you don’t expect.

For example, you may find Scandinavian when your ancestor was from England or Ireland. The Vikings raided the British Isles, so while some small amount of Scandinavian is not what you expect, that doesn’t mean it‘s wrong. However, if all of your family is from England, it’s not reasonable to have entirely Scandinavian ethnicity results.

It’s also less likely as each generation passes by that the information about their origins gets handed down accurately to following generations. Most non-genealogists don’t know the names of their great-grandparents, let alone where their ancestors were from.

Using a 25-year average generation length, by the 4th generation, shown in the chart above, you have 16 ancestors who lived approximately 100 years before your parents were born, so someplace in the mid-1800s. It’s unlikely for oral history from that time to survive intact. It’s even less likely from a century years earlier, where in the 7th generation, you have 128 total ancestors.

The best way to validate the accuracy of your ethnicity estimates is by researching your genealogy. Of course, you need to take an ethnicity test, or two, in order to have results to validate.

Ethnicity has a lot more to offer than just percentages.

Best Autosomal Tests for Native Ethnicity

Based on my experience with people who have confirmed Native ancestry, the two best tests to detect Native American ethnicity, especially in smaller percentages, are both FamilyTreeDNA and 23andMe.

Click images to enlarge

In addition to percentages, both 23andMe and FamilyTreeDNA provide chromosome painting for ethnicity, along with segment information in download files. In other words, they literally paint your ethnicity results on your chromosomes.

They then provide you with a file with the “addresses” of those ethnicities on your chromosomes, which means you can figure out which ancestors contributed those ethnicity segments.

The person in the example above, a tester at FamilyTreeDNA, is highly admixed with ancestors from European regions, African regions and Native people from South America.

Trace amounts of Native American with a majority of European heritage would appear more like this.

You can use this information to paint your chromosome segments at DNAPainter, along with your matching segments to other testers where you can identify your common ancestors. This is why providing trees is critically important – DNA plus ancestor identification with our matches is how we confirm our ancestry.

This combination allows you to identify which Native (or another ethnicity) segments descended from which ancestors. I was able to determine which ancestor provided that pink Native American segment on chromosome 1 on my mother’s side.

I’ve provided instructions for painting ethnicity segments to identify their origins in specific ancestors, here.

Autosomal and Genealogy

You may have noticed that we’ve now drifted into the genealogy realm of autosomal DNA testing. Ethnicity is nice, but if you want to know who those segments came from, you’ll need:

  • Autosomal test matching to other people
  • To identify your common ancestor with as many matches as you can
  • To match at a company who provides you with segment information for each match
  • To work with DNAPainter, which is very easy

The great news is that you can do all of that using the autosomal tests you took for ethnicity, except at Ancestry who does not provide segment information.

Best Autosomal Test for Matching Other Testers

The best autosomal test for matching may be different for everyone. Let’s look at some of the differentiators and considerations.

If you’re basing a testing recommendation solely on database size, which will probably correlate to more matches, then the DNA testing vendors fall into this order:

If you’re basing that recommendation on the BEST, generally meaning the closest matches for you, there’s no way of knowing ahead of time. At each of the four DNA testing companies, I have very good matches who have not tested elsewhere. If I weren’t in all four databases, I would have missed many valuable matches.

If you’re basing that recommendation on which vendor began testing earliest, meaning they have many tests from people who are now deceased, so you won’t find their autosomal tests in other databases that don’t accept uploads, the recommended testing company order would be:

If you’re basing that recommendation on matches to people who live in other countries, the order would be:

Ancestry and 23andMe are very distant third/fourth because they did not sell widely outside the US initially and still don’t sell in as many countries as the others, meaning their testers’ geography is more limited. However, Ancestry is also prevalent in the UK.

If you’re basing that recommendation on segment information and advanced tools that allow you to triangulate and confirm your genetic link to specific ancestors, the order would be:

Ancestry does NOT provide any segment information.

If you’re basing that recommendation on unique tools provided by each vendor, every vendor has something very beneficial that the others don’t.

In other words, there’s really no clear-cut answer for which single autosomal DNA test to order. The real answer is to be sure you’re fishing in all the ponds. The fish are not the same. Unique people test at each of those companies daily who will never be found in the other databases.

Test at or upload your DNA to all four DNA testing companies, plus GEDmatch. Step-by-step instructions for downloading your raw data file and uploading it to the DNA testing companies who accept uploads can be found, here.

Test or Upload

Not all testing companies accept uploads of raw autosomal DNA data files from other companies. The good news is that some do, and it’s free to upload and receive matches.

Two major DNA testing companies DO NOT accept uploads from other companies. In other words, you have to test at that company:

Two testing companies DO accept uploads from the other three companies. Uploads and matching are free, and advanced features can be unlocked very cost effectively.

  • FamilyTreeDNA – free matching and $19 unlock for advanced features
  • MyHeritage – free matching and $29 unlock.for advanced features

I recommend testing at both 23andMe and Ancestry and uploading one of those files to both FamilyTreeDNA and MyHeritage, then purchasing the respective unlocks.

GEDmatch

GEDmatch is a third-party matching site, not a DNA testing company. Consider uploading to GEDmatch because you may find matches from Ancestry who have uploaded to GEDmatch, giving you access to matching segment information.

Other Types of DNA

John provided additional information that may prove to be VERY useful. Both Y-DNA and mitochondrial DNA can be tested as well and may prove to be more useful than autosomal to positively identify the origins of those two specific lines.

Let’s assume that John takes an autosomal test and discovers that indeed, the 3/16th Native estimate was close. 3/16th equates to about 18% Native which would mean that three of his 16 great-great-grandparents were Native.

John told us that his Grandmother Jones was supposed to be 100% Native.

At the great-great-grandparent level, John has 16 ancestors, so eight on his mother’s side, four from maternal grandmother Jones and four from his maternal grandfather Davis.

John carries the mitochondrial DNA of his mother (red boxes and arrows,) and her mother, through a direct line of females back in time. John also carries the Y-DNA of his father (dark blue box, at left above, and blue arrows below.)

Unlike autosomal DNA which is admixed in every generation, mitochondrial DNA (red arrows) is inherited from that direct matrilineal line ONLY and never combines with the DNA of the father. Mothers give their mitochondrial DNA to both sexes of their children, but men never contribute their mitochondrial DNA to offspring. Everyone has their mother’s mitochondrial DNA.

Because it never recombines with DNA from the father, so is never “watered down,” we can “see” much further back in time, even though we can’t yet identify those ancestors.

However, more importantly, in this situation, John can test his own mitochondrial DNA that he inherited from his mother, who inherited it from her mother, to view her direct matrilineal line.

John’s mitochondrial DNA haplogroup that will be assigned during testing tells us unquestionably whether or not his direct matrilineal ancestor was Native on her mother’s line, or not. If not, it may well tell us where that specific line originated.

You can view the countries around the world where Y-DNA haplogroups are found, here, and mitochondrial haplogroups, here.

If John’s mitochondrial DNA haplogroup is Native, that confirms that one specific line is Native. If he can find other testers in his various lines to test either their Y-DNA or mitochondrial DNA, John can determine if other ancestors were Native too. If not, those tests will reveal the origins of that line, separate from the rest of his genealogical lines.

Although John didn’t mention his father’s line, if he takes a Y-DNA test, especially at the Big Y-700 level, that will also reveal the origins of his direct paternal line. Y-DNA doesn’t combine with the other parent’s DNA either, so it reaches far back in time too.

Y-DNA and mitochondrial DNA tests are laser-focused on one line each, and only one line. You don’t have to try to sort it out of the ethnicity “pot,” wondering which ancestor was or was not Native.

My Recommendation

When putting together a testing strategy, I recommend taking advantage of free uploads and inexpensive unlocks when possible.

  • To confirm Native American ancestry via ethnicity testing, I recommend testing at 23andMe and uploading to FamilyTreeDNA, then purchasing the $19 unlock. The free upload and $19 unlock are less expensive than testing there directly.
  • For matching, I recommend testing at Ancestry and uploading to MyHeritage, then unlocking the MyHeritage advanced features for $29, which is less expensive than retesting. Ancestry does not provide segment information, but MyHeritage (and the others) do.

At this point, John will have taken two DNA tests, but is now in all four databases, plus GEDmatch if he uploads there.

  • For genealogy research on John’s lines to determine whether or not his mother’s lines were Native, I recommend an Ancestry and a MyHeritage records subscription, plus using WikiTree, which is free.
  • To determine if John’s mother’s direct matrilineal female line was Native, I recommend that John order the mitochondrial DNA test at FamilyTreeDNA.
  • When ordering multiple tests, or uploading at FamilyTreeDNA, be sure to upload/order all of one person’s tests on the same DNA kit so that those results can be used in combination with each other.

Both males and females can take autosomal and mitochondrial DNA tests.

  • To discover what he doesn’t know about his direct paternal, meaning John’s surname line – I recommend the Big Y-700 test at FamilyTreeDNA.

Only males can take a Y-DNA test, so women would need to ask their father, brother, or paternal uncle, for example, to test their direct paternal line.

  • If John can find a male Davis from his mother’s line, I recommend that he purchase the Big Y-700 test at FamilyTreeDNA for that person, or check to see if someone from his Davis line may have already tested by viewing the Davis DNA Project. Like with mitochondrial DNA, the Y-DNA haplogroup will tell John the origins of his direct Davis male ancestor – plus matching of course. He will be able to determine if they were Native, and if not, discover the origins of the Davis line.
  • For assigning segments to ancestors and triangulating to confirm descent from a common ancestor, I recommend 23andMe, MyHeritage, FamilyTreeDNA and GEDmatch, paired with DNAPainter as a tool.

Shopping and Research List

Here are the tests and links recommended above:

More Than He Asked

I realize this answer is way more than John expected or even knew to ask. That’s because there is often no “one” or “one best” answer. There are many ways to approach the question after the goal is defined, and the first “answer” received may be a bit out of context.

For example, let’s say John has 2% Native ancestry and took a test at a vendor who didn’t detect it. John would believe he had none. But a different vendor might find that 2%. If it’s on his mother’s direct matrilineal line, mitochondrial DNA testing will confirm, or refute Native, beyond any doubt, regardless of autosomal ethnicity results – but only for that specific ancestral line.

Autosomal DNA can suggest Native across all your DNA, but Y-DNA and mitochondrial DNA confirm it for each individual ancestor.

Even when autosomal testing does NOT show Native American, or African, for example, it’s certainly possible that it’s just too far back in time or has not been passed down during random recombination, but either Y-DNA or mitochondrial DNA will unquestionably confirm (or refute) the ancestry in question if the right person is tested.

This is exactly why I attempt to find a cousin who descends appropriately from every ancestor and provide testing scholarships. It’s important to obtain Y-DNA and mitochondrial DNA information for each ancestor.

Which Test Should I Order?

What steps will help you decide which test or tests to take?

  1. Define your testing goal.
  2. Determine if your Y-DNA or mitochondrial DNA will help answer the question.
  3. Determine if you need to find ancestors another generation or two back in time to get the most benefit from DNA testing. In our example, if John discovered that both of his grandparents were enrolled tribal members, that’s huge, and the tribe might have additional information about his family.
  4. Subscribe to Ancestry and MyHeritage records collections as appropriate to perform genealogical research. Additional information not only provides context for your family, it also provides you with the ability to confirm or better understand your ethnicity results.
  5. Extend your tree so that you can obtain the best results from the three vendors who support trees; Ancestry, FamilyTreeDNA, and MyHeritage. All three use trees combined with DNA tests to provide you with additional information.
  6. Order 23andMe and Ancestry autosomal DNA tests.
  7. Either test at or upload one of those tests to MyHeritage, FamilyTreeDNA, and GEDmatch.
  8. If a male, order the Big Y-700 DNA test. Or, find a male from your ancestral line who has taken or will take that test. I always offer a testing scholarship and, of course, share the exciting results!
  9. Order a mitochondrial DNA test for yourself and for appropriately descended family members to represent other ancestors. Remember that your father (and his siblings) all carry your paternal grandmother’s mitochondrial DNA. That’s often a good place to start after testing your own DNA.
  10. If your parents or grandparents are alive, or aunts and uncles, test their autosomal DNA too. They are (at least) one generation closer to your ancestors than you are and will carry more of your ancestors’ DNA.
  11. Your siblings will carry some of your ancestors’ DNA that you do not, so test them too if both of your parents aren’t available for testing.

Enjoy!!!

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Jullien Lor (c1752-1724); La Montagne, A Mountain of a Man – 52 Ancestors #401

Jullien signed his own name as Jullien Lor on a list of men taking a Loyalty oath in 1690. Interestingly, that given name is normally spelled Julien, with one l, but he signed his name with two. Spelling generally, including names, was not standardized at that time. I’ve normalized it to Julien for this article since that’s how you’ll see it spelled in most places.

In following generations, his surname is spelled Lord, among other ways, but there is no official parish record of the Lord surname at all in Port Royal, Acadia. The surname is found in various records for Julien and his sons as L’Or, Lor, Laure, Lore, and his dit name, La Montagne. L’or translates to “gold” in English.

Much about Julien’s life remains a mystery.

What Do We Actually Know About Julien Lor?

Julien was obviously literate, which means he had some level of education in France. He was not an impoverished street urchin and probably learned to read and write in a Catholic school instructed by priests.

According to the Encyclopedia Britannica:

In Catholic countries, such as France, the Roman church retained control of education. Indeed, as monarchy became more absolute, so largely did the authority of the church in matters of education. In France, practically all schools and universities were controlled by so-called teaching congregations or societies, the most famous and powerful of which during the first half of the 17th century was the Society of Jesus. By mid-century, the Jesuits had 14,000 pupils under instruction in Paris alone; their colleges (not including universities) all over the land numbered 612.

We don’t know where Julien was born, although his signature on the petition required of the French Acadians by the British strongly suggests that he is French. In fact, I’d go so far as to say we’ve confirms it.

Not only is his name spelled with the Aigu accent over the e, which is common in French names, but had he NOT been French, he would not have been required to sign that document.

He may well have been named after the Catholic Saint Julian the Hospitaller.

I checked Filae, a site that contains a plethora of French records. There are no Lor, L’or, Lore, or Laur, but there are Laurent and Laurens. Without a subscription, I can’t see more.

MyHeritage records reflect either trees or non-relevant records. Maybe someday!

We don’t know where Julien was from in France or exactly when he was born, but we do have some idea about his birth year.

Bless the Census Takers, For They Have Saved My Sanity

The first actual record we find that includes Julien is the Port Royal 1686 census which was recorded by “Monsieur De Meulles, Intendant of New France and All the People of Beaubassin, Rivière St-Jean, Port-Royal, Isle Persée and other Colonies of Acadia where he himself visited all of the Habitations at the beginning of the year 1686.”

In this census, Julien is shown as age 33, married to Charlotte Girouard, who is 26, with four children. Alexander is 10, Jacques 8, Pierre 5, and Marie, age 1.

This tells us that Julien was born about 1653. It also tells us that he was in Port Royal at least 11 years earlier, by 1675, because he has a 10-year-old son. Assuming that Charlotte’s age is accurate, that means either she was not his first wife, or she was 16 when Alexander was born. Charlotte Anne Girouard is listed as Anne, age 12, in the 1671 census with her family, so he did not marry her in France.

Unfortunately, Julien and Anne are missing from the 1678 census. They are not with her parents, nor are they listed separately. Some things never change about census takers.

When Did Julien Arrive?

That’s a great question.

On a website no longer available, but that I accessed using the Wayback Machine, here, auto-translated by Google from French, Julien Lord is listed by that author as a soldier in the Carnigan company of soldiers. He’s noted as being born in Normandy in 1652, probably based on the regiment’s history. The website states that they reconstructed Julien’s life using the census and his children’s records.

What they don’t say directly is whether they actually found something to suggest Julien was a soldier, or it’s presumed.

Based on a list of the San Sebastian’s crew in 1665, here, Julien is not listed, but there is one person listed under the nickname, La Montagne, that translates as “mountain.” The dit part of the name translates to “said.” In other words, that person is called “mountain.”

Julien and his sons are all listed by the name of “La Montagne” in the 1707 and 1714 censuses. In case there’s doubt about him actually being known by that name, his wife Anne Charlotte’s death record clears that up.

It’s still a leap of faith equating a man listed only as “La Montagne” on a roster as Julien, although it is possible, and he clearly was listed by that name, without a first name, at least twice in the census.

According to information cousin Mark unearthed, several different men over time have been listed by that dit nickname.

What does the website say about Julien?

He was born in Normandy in 1652; He married Anne-Charlotte Girouard (1660/1741) in 1675 in Port-Royal, Acadia, daughter of François Girouard, dit Lavaranne and Jeanne Aucoin. In 1686, he was on the land of François Girouard, his father-in-law. In August 1695, he was among the 47 heads of families of Port-Royal who took an oath of loyalty to William of Orange, King of England. In 1714, the home of Julien Lord was located very close to the fort. He died between February 17 and May 3, 1724. The act of burial remains unfinished.

They do note that Julien, at age 13, seems young for a soldier, but also state that a boy could marry at age 13, boys were found on board fishing and warships by age 9, and the English army included 12-year-olds.

If he actually was 13, he sailed away, never to see any of his family again. How heartbreaking for him.

Information provided about the ship, auto-translated to English:

Embarked on board the ship Le Saint-Sébastien from La Rochelle on May 24, 1665 Arrived in Quebec on September 12, 1665

(117 days of crossing, embarcation included)

According to a letter from Jean Talon au Roy, it would also seem that he made a stopover near Tadoussac and it was only from there that the disease would have fallen on the ship, there are up to 80 patients.

(Sources: Relationship, Talon, Register.)

Return of the Laubias company in 1670:

This company will return with new soldiers and a few old ones, some of whom will settle in New France. According to Colbert de Terron, the soldiers of Laubias’ company embarked on the ship Hirondelle around mid-April 1670 (letter from Colbert de Terron dated May 1, 1670). Moreover, according to the “Report of François Baudry, captain of the Hirondelle, belonging to the king, on fishing on Percée Island and Newfoundland”, p. 25, L’Hirondelle is said to have gone “fishing for dry fish on the isle percée in the new land and would have arrived there quite happily on the seventeenth of June.”

Moreover, Colbert de Terron (in this same letter dated May 1, 1670) affirms that the ship New France would have left towards the end of April (“two days ago” compared to the writing of his letter of May 1, 1670). Moreover, if I believe the “Report of Alain Durand, captain of New France, on his trip to Quebec”, p. 28, New France is said to have left at the end of April 1670 and “would have been to the island breakthrough by order of His Majesty to take soldiers who were there in the name of the island. of two hundred men to lead them to d. place of quebec where they would have arrived on xxj. July “.

After a quick analysis of these sources (attached), it seems to me that the company of Laubias would probably have embarked on the Hirondelle in mid-April 1670 bound for “Isle Percée” and would have docked there towards June 22, 1670. From there, the company of Laubias would have embarked on board New France in destination of Quebec and would have arrived there on July 20, 1670.

Laubias’ company would then have established itself in Nicolet. See Histoire de Nicolet, pp 35 to 50, from Abbé Bellemare:

Research by Mr. Martin L’Epine whom we thank.

Based on the other soldiers, specifically the soldiers who remained, they were in Three Rivers in Quebec, not in Port Royal. How would Julien have gotten to Port Royal?

From the book One Hundred French-Canadian Family Histories by Phillip James Moore, using Google Books, we find the following excerpt.

Moore suggests Julien may have arrived in 1668 when he was 14 or in 1670 when he would have been 18.

If he arrived with any of these groups, he would clearly have been a soldier at Fort Anne.

Seaward view from the ramparts of the Fort Anne National Historic site where Julien likely began life in Acadia.

Karen Theriot Reader weighs in as follows:

Could he be the Julien Lord la Montagne among the names of soldiers in the Carignan-Salieres Regiment? They served between 1665 and 1668. Did he come to Acadia after that?

Residences: While some soldiers and officers of the Carignan regiment did settle in Acadia, they are not included in the soldier-settler list, because little factual information is known about them or their descendants, for lack of records from this area at that time.

From cousin Mark regarding Julien arriving with Carignan:

The list Sylvain (another cousin) referenced and the source cited is the French website. Even if one accepts that a 13-year-old can be a soldier that traveled by ship to Quebec, there is no evidence nor any proffered detail that he later journeyed somehow to Port-Royal. Moreover, I still see no Julien Lord with any similar surname on any of the lists I’ve checked. This includes Peter Gagné’s list at La Société des Filles du roi et soldats du Carignan, as well as from Jack Verney’s book that I have, “The Good Regiment.” Verney lists a soldier identified only by the dit name Lamontagne as with the Loubias company. As Peter Gagné pointed out in his excellent master’s thesis on the Regiment, “Nicknames were not exclusive to one individual” and lists, among other dit names that of Lamontagne for six soldiers across different companies.

Where I think there exists some confusion between what Sylvain wrote and WikiTree, is that Le Saint-Sébastien was also the name of the ship, and possibly the same one from 1665, that carried Hector d’Andigné de Grandfontaine first to Boston and then to Pentagöuet, now Penobscot, Maine, to take possession of the forts the English had previously captured. He sent his second-in-command to Port Royal which surrendered on September 2, 1670. He had been appointed the new governor of Acadia, and there were soldiers onboard with him, possibly including Julien Lord. But again, from what I can determine, and otherwise it would have been of great news for Acadian genealogists, there was no roster or passenger list for that voyage. Sylvain wrote that he arrived with the ship on September 2, so it is this voyage that Sylvain refers to not that of the 1665 voyage of the Carignan Regiment to Québec. Maybe he was familiar with a roster I’m not aware of.

This, from the Dictionary of Canadian Biography on d’Andigné,

In addition to the soldiers and indentured employees who had arrived with the governor, the Oranger brought 60 passengers the following year, among them one woman and four girls, and the court paid 100 livres each for their passage and their setting-up. The soldiers seemed to like the country, for in the following years some 15 thought of settling there. It is impossible to determine exactly how many new settlers took up residence in Acadia at that time, but it was certainly the greatest number to arrive since the time of Razilly and d’Aulnay.

The 1671 Census of Acadia is incomplete as it only listed habitants, not others, including the soldiers stationed there. I do suspect Julien Lord may have been among them. An outstanding researcher of La Rochelle sailings to New France is Guy Perron who writes up his research in a blog that is a gold mine for this type of information.

I’ve quickly searched for the 1670 sailing of the Saint-Sébastien and did not find it, but will continue to look, through his 355 articles and elsewhere.

What Was Happening?

Mark’s comment about the 1671 census omitting soldiers at the Fort is quite important. Julien is NOT found in that census, nor the 1678 census, but we know he was already married by 1675 and had a son in 1676.

So, what was going on in Acadia, the land where Julien arrived, somehow, adopted as his own and lived the rest of his life?

We already know that Acadia was the land of a few French settlers and a few French soldiers, but not many. The British also wanted Acadia. Skirmishes and outright warfare regularly occurred on this maritime frontier, and control shifted back and forth for 150 years or so until the British deported the Acadian families a century later, in 1755.

In 1666, France reportedly stopped sending colonists to Canada, including Acadia, for fear of depopulating the mother country.

In 1667, France regained Acadia through treaty, but the English didn’t actually leave  until 1670 when the English forts at Port Royal and Jemseg surrendered. The French were finally back in control of Acadia.

By 1670, Acadia had about 400 people. That’s not very many. By comparison, Massachusetts had about 40,000.

When France regained control of Acadia, another 30 soldiers, and 60 settlers arrived. Their orders were to restore French authority and keep the pesky English out.

Caught in the middle between two powers, England and France, the Acadians were often subject to attack. It may be important to note that they maintained trading relations with people in New England, even though it was forbidden. A century later, long-established family relationships may have helped save their descendants when the English deported them in 1755.

Thankfully, in 1671, the new French governor requested a census that provides us with the first, even somewhat comprehensive, view of Acadia, although some inhabitants were missed.

The official census of 1671 recorded 392 people, mostly in Port Royal. Scholars estimate the real count was probably someplace around 500. That census did not include the soldiers at the fort. This is probably why Julien is not recorded in either 1671 when he was (probably) not yet married, or in 1678. By 1678, he was not only married, he had one child born in 1676, another in 1678 or 1679, and his wife was probably expecting another child. Julien had clearly settled in.

Reconstructing Julien’s Life

Fortunately, we can reconstruct part of Julien’s life through the census. Those records are particularly important prior to the church records that remain dating from May of 1702. Earlier records were destroyed in some warfare event.

The early census documents include the names and ages of children with their families.

I need to stress that I’m using transcribed records, mostly but not exclusively from acadian-home.org, not the originals that would have been recorded in French script. Some of these records are quite confusing, so I resorted to my old standby – a spreadsheet.

Based on that 1686 census, we know that Julien was married to Charlotte Anne or Anne Charlotte Girouard about 1675. While the ages of some people vary widely, her birth year universally resolves to 1660.

The church records don’t exist from the 1600s, so we don’t have their marriage record, nor do we know positively that she was Julien’s first wife. However, their second child, Jacques’s marriage record specifies that Anne Girouard is his mother. Jacques was born in 1678 or 1679.

Julien had at least nine known children and probably several more. I’ve attempted to reconstruct the family as follows, interweaving historical events for a peek into their lives.

  • Alexander Lore was born in 1676 and died on October 5, 1740. He married Marie Francoise Barrieau before May of 1702 when existing parish records begin, and probably before the 1701 census. His death record does not show his parents but states his age as 64, so confirms his birth in 1676 which is consistent with the census.
  • Possibly a child that died.
  • Jacques Lor was probably born in 1679 and died sometime after 1742. He married twice, first to Angelique Comeau on November 19, 1708, and secondly to Marie Charlotte Bonnevie on August 18, 1721.
  • Possibly a child that died.
  • Pierre Lore was born in 1681 or 1682 and died on January 17, 1738, in or near Port Royal. He married Jeanne Doucet on June 17, 1715.

In 1684, a new governor was appointed, which seemed to be a regular occurrence. He described the Acadians as living simply and pastorally. He claimed they lived better than Canadians, never lacking meat or bread, but weren’t as industrious. He said they never put anything away for a bad year and their dowries were small – a few francs and a cow in calf, a ewe and a sow. Some wealthy families had a feather bed.

This paints a picture of what Julien and Charlotte’s wedding might have been like. Starting life with a pregnant cow, a ewe and a sow. I’m sure the newlyweds didn’t care where they slept.

Another new governor in 1686 reported that the people had scattered and lived far from each other. The homes were built behind the marshes, which were along the river.

  • Marie Lore was probably born between 1684 and 1687. One Marie Lore witnesses a baptism record in 1733. We will discuss her records in the next section.
  • Probably a child that died.
  • Anne Lore was born in 1687 and died on May 21, 1770 in Trois Rivieres, Quebec. She married Mathieu Doucet on June 15, 1712.

A 1688 report states that there was a labor shortage and a shortage of manure necessary for developing the uplands. I never considered manure as a commodity in this way. The report also stated that there was a shortage of tidelands that would be easy to dyke. As a result, 25-30 (mostly) younger people had moved to Minas in the last six years.

The settlers were described as “scattered apart from each other in the space of six or seven leagues, above and below along the banks of the Port Royal river.”

  • Probably 2 children that died.

In 1689, Vincent de Saccard said that “there weren’t any settlers below Goat Island, but 29 on the shores of the basin above it. Each settler has frontage of about one and a half to two miles, but not much depth. The largest areas of marsh that could be dyked had more farms. Farms had maybe 100-200 acres.”

I suspect that these families would have been very vulnerable to attack. However, the Mi’kmaq were their friends and sometimes family, so the Acadians were certainly not as vulnerable as they would have been without that liaison.

Photos of repairing dykes at Grand Pre about 1900 can be viewed here, and the labor-intensive Acadian aboiteau dike and sluice gate system, here, including special shoes for horses to keep them from sinking.

Antoine Cadillac, who lived in Acadia in the 1680s as an explorer, trapper and trader wrote, “This place is surrounded by steep mountains, at the bottom of which there is a small valley one league wide and seven leagues long, where there are only prairies on each side of the river, which are flooded by the tides, the inhabitants have made levees, dykes and causeways, so that the dirty water cannot enter.”

Of course, this means that Julien would have known Cadillac who traded in both furs and liquor.

Click to enlarge

This is where Julien lived, at location #12, according to this 1733 survey.

The Fires

On May 9, 1690, Acadia was again attacked, plundered, and burned by the English out of Boston.

English forces under Sir William Phipps attacked Port Royal with a fleet of seven vessels and 700 men. French pirate Pierre Baptiste was among only 85 men defending the unfinished fortification at Port Royal.

After spending 12 days pillaging Port Royal, Phipps’ troops pillaged the rest of Acadia, including Castine, La Hève, Chedabucto, and the settlements at the head of the Bay of Fundy which would have included Julien’s home.

The church and 28 homes were burned, but not the mills and upriver farms. The English were now in charge. Baptiste was taken prisoner along with other Acadians whose names we don’t know, but shortly thereafter, escaped.

Julien clearly knew Baptiste and probably knew him well.

The Acadians in the fort at Port Royal swore an oath of allegiance, hoping to de-escalate the situation. Later, two English pirates, then called privateers, took advantage of the opportunity and burned homes again, killing people and slaughtering livestock. Some people just take pleasure in other people’s misery and being cruel.

A year later, Baptiste, our friendly French pirate who had attempted unsuccessfully to defend Port Royal in 1690, was successfully recruiting men in Acadia.

During this timeframe, Antoine de Lamothe Cadillac explored up the St. Lawrence River, through New France. He wrote about the Acadians, reporting that, “the creolles…travel most of the time by bark canoes. Their wives do the same, and are very bold on the water.” Another man stated that the Acadians used “bark canoes, like the savages, or other small canoes that they themselves make from a hollow tree hole.”

By Billy Hathorn – Own work, CC BY 3.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=34087679

A beautiful birchbark canoe from the Abbe Museum in Bar Harbour, Maine. The rivers were their roads, and Julien’s family lived on what was the Rivière du Dauphin, now renamed the Annapolis River.

In 1590, a century earlier, Theodore de Bry produced this engraving of a John White watercolor, stating this is how the Native people made their dugout canoes, by hollowing logs out using fire. The Acadians learned from the Mi’kmaq and probably did the same.

In 1690, when the houses were burned, Julien had a wife and at least five children to care for. Based on the documentation available, we know that he lived “above” the fort along the river.

The oath Julien signed in 1690 was forced upon the residents in May when the fort was captured. In his own words, the Massachusetts commander reported, “We cut down the cross, rifled the Church, pulled down the High-Altar, breaking their images”; and on 23 May, “kept gathering Plunder both by land and water, and also under ground in their Gardens.”

Julien would have been a strapping man of 38. And probably hellishly angry.

I would guess that Julien sent his wife and boys, ages 14, 11, and 9, and two daughters about 3 and 6, someplace into hiding, perhaps in the mountain range above their home, marked with the red star above. He may have needed to keep his wife’s elderly parents safe too. His father-in-law died sometime during this period.

Perhaps the nearby mountains had something to do with rekindling his nickname, La Montagne.

There would have been safety in the mountains among their allies, the Mi’kmaq people. Julien would have been one of those 85 men defending the fort.

After giving orders to his men to impose the loyalty oath to everyone they could locate, both French and Native, “and upon refusal hereof to burn, kill, and destroy them,” Phipps sailed back to Massachusetts.

No wonder Julien and the others signed.

There are gaps between the known children of Julien and Charlotte. Based on what we know, one child was probably born in 1690, possibly in the midst of the attack. So, Charlotte was either pregnant or had a baby with her during this time. That child died.

  • Magdelaine Lore was born in 1692 and married Francois Amiraut on January 16, 1714.

In the 1693 census, Julien is 41 years old, so born in 1652, and is listed with his wife, Charlotte, age 33, so born in 1660, living in the home of his mother-in-law, Jean Aucoin, age 60, widow of Francois Girouard. Julien’s children are Alexandre, 16, Jacques, 14, Pierre, 12, Marie, 6, and Magdeleine, 1, along with 20 cattle, 40 sheep, 10 hogs, 20 arpents (of land), and 2 guns. An arpent of land can either be about 192 linear feet or about .84 acres.

Julien seems to be providing well for his family with an abundance of livestock.

  • Probably a child that died, or the age of one of another child is recorded incorrectly.
  • Based on the various census records, Louis Lore and Jean-Baptiste Lore appear to be the same person who was born in 1695 and died sometime after 1714.
  • Probably a child that died.
  • Marguerite Lore was born in-between 1695 and 1698 and died before November 5, 1770. She married Joseph Amiraux on January 30, 1718.

For a relatively small area with few residents, Acadia was a lightning rod of conflict.

In 1696, the English attacked again. By this time, it was a common occurrence, but that didn’t mean it wasn’t devastating to the colonists who had to keep rebuilding over and over. Germain Bourgeois told the English that they had sworn loyalty to the English King. The English pretended it mattered, but it didn’t. Buildings were burned again, animals slaughtered, and apparently not just for food, but sport. This time, the dykes were ruined too, meaning it would be another three years before they could plant again.

In 1697, Acadia was returned to the French in the Treaty of Ryswick.

The 1698 census provides additional information about the family, with the transcribed version recording Julien Lord as 46, so born in 1652, Charlotte as 38, born in 1660, Jacques as 20, Marie as 18 (born 1680), Pierre as 16, Anne as 11 (born 1687), Jean-Baptiste 3, 20 cattle, 20 sheep, 12 hogs, 21 arpents of land, 6 fruit trees and one gun. Location is given as Port Royal.

The fruit trees made me smile. Fruit, probably apples, must have been a wonderful treat. Only people with long-term aspirations and intentions plant trees.

I initially thought that daughters Marie and Anne were the same person called by different names, but on two different censuses, both are recorded, so clearly not one individual.

By 1700 when another census was taken, there were about 2000 Acadians, but they no longer considered themselves “Pure French.”

In the 1700 census, Julien was age 48, so born in 1652, and Charlotte, age 40, born in 1660, are living with her mother, Jeanne Aucoin, age 87 (which is probably actually 67.) Their children are Alexandre, 24, Jacques, 21, Pierre, 18, Marie, 13, Madelaine, 8, Louis, 5, and Marguerite, 2, plus 15 cattle, 34 sheep, 20 arpents of land, and 2 guns (Port Royal)

The 1701 census shows Julien Lord, 50, so born 1651, Anne Girouard (wife,) 41, so born 1660; Jacques, 23, Pierre, 20, Marie, 17, Anne, 14, Louis, 8, Marguerite, 6; 2 guns, 17 cattle, 15 sheep, 12 hogs, 10 arpents of land. (Port Royal). Why is Julien shown with less land?

  • Possibly a female child died after 1703
  • Possibly a male child born 1701/1702 and died before 1707
  • Charles Lore was born in 1703 or 1704 and died on November 21, 1775 in Varennes, Quebec. He married Marie-Josephte Doucet on February 19, 1726.
  • Possibly one final daughter according to the 1714 census

By 1702, both sides were preparing for conflict again. The Acadian governor had begun construction of a stone and earth fort the year before which was largely complete by 1704.

The 1703 census shows Julien Lors, wife, 4 boys and 4 girls. Alexander had married but is not listed separately. However, his wife is not listed here. The four boys would be Jacque, Pierre, Jean-Baptiste/Louis, and Charles if he was born by 1703. If Charles was not yet born by the 1703 census, Julien and Charlotte had a male child in 1701 or 1702 that died before 1707. The girls would be Marie, Anne, Magdaleine, and Marguerite.

Julien’s children are VERY difficult to unravel.

Sorting the Children

If Charlotte was born in 1660, she would have been 43 in 1703 when Charles was born, or 44 if he was born in 1704. It’s possible that she had another child or two. If she did, we don’t have any definitive records.

I created a spreadsheet attempting to correlate family information.

I compiled the children and their ages from each census. I calculated their birth year from their age.

In their cell, you’ll see something like 33-1653 which means that Julien was age 33 in 1686, which subtracts to a birth year of 1653.

Some years are confusing. For example, Alexander is missing in 1698 when he would have been about 22, but he’s present in 1700, then missing in 1701 and 1703. He’s enumerated separately in 1714. He clearly lived because we have his death record in 1740.

Click to enlarge

I’ve listed Jean-Baptiste and Louis, colored blue, separately, but if you look at the entries, it’s clear that’s actually one person.

The most confusing entries are for daughters Marie and Anne, colored yellow. I originally thought they were two names for the same person, but they aren’t. In both 1698 and 1701, both names are listed with different birth years. So, there are clearly two people. Sometimes when a child dies, the parents name another child with the same name. However, that’s not the case here either.

If I had the original census documents, I’d check the ages. There is probably one Marie, but the ages vary so widely that I listed them separately. I just don’t know. The last record we have for any Marie is a 1733 record where some Marie Lor is a witness for a baptism. Then, nothing.

Anne, on the other hand, is listed in 1698 but should have been listed in 1693 if she was born in 1687. She was also missing in 1700, but present with Marie in both 1698 and 1701.

Anne married in 1712, but in the 1714 census, her husband is not listed as a head of household.

The 1703, 1707, and 1714 censuses do not list the children by name or age. They list the head of household with the number of children.

In 1703, the number of arms bearers is listed too.

In 1703, Julien had 4 boys, 4 girls and 4 arms bearers. I’ve colored the boys blue and the girls apricot who can be reasonably identified in 1703, 1707, and 1714.

In 1703, by process of elimination, we know Julien was an arms bearer, and so was Jacques, who would have been 25, and Pierre, who would have been 22. Who was the fourth male that was an arms bearer? The youngest males would have been Jean-Baptists/Louis, who would have been 10 and Charles who was an infant. Both were too young to bear arms. Is the other male Alexandre? If so, then where is his wife? Was she not counted because she was an adult and not Julien’s child?

Julien has 4 girls. One would have been Marie, one Anne, one Magdeleine, and one Marguerite, so that works.

In 1707, Julien was listed simply as LaMoutagne (probably actually LaMontagne,) with his wife, 2 boys age 14 or older, 2 younger boys, 3 girls 12 or older, 1 younger girl, 6 arpents of land, 16 cattle, 28 sheep, 18 hogs, and 2 guns. His son, Alexandre, listed as Androu LaMoutagne, wife, 2 girls less than 12, 7 cattle, 15 sheep, 8 hogs and a gun. Notice that Julien now only has 6 arpents of land, and Alexandre has none. Alexandre is listed beside Julien, so they are clearly sharing one farm, so he’s probably the fourth arms-bearer in 1703.

The 1707 census was used to create this wonderful interactive map, here, which is also available in print at the O’Dell House Museum.

In 1714, seven years later, several of Julien’s children had married. Julien himself is again listed as LaMontagne with no first name. This is clearly what he was called. Beside him are both Alexandre LaMontagne and Jacques LaMontagne, both listed in their own households.

Julien is listed with 3 sons and 3 daughters. One son is Pierre who didn’t marry until the next year, and probably Jean-Baptiste/Louis, although we have no records of him beyond 1701. The third son would be Charles was born in 1703 or 1704.

Julien is also shown with 3 daughters. One definitely would be Marguerite. Either Marie, Anne, or Magdeleine could be the other daughters. Neither Anne nor Magdeleine’s husbands are listed as heads of household. It’s very unlikely that Charlotte had another child after 1707, but that’s not impossible either. I justs don’t know.

Lastly, in both 1693 and 1700, Julien and family are living with his mother-in-law, or she is living with them. They are shown with 20 arpents of land.  In 1686, Charlotte’s father was still living, but he died before the 1793 census.

So, what do we actually know about Julien’s children?

We know positively that Julien and Charlotte had nine children, assuming Marie is only one person. Seven married. Two disappeared entirely from the records. This could mean that there were either marriage or death records, and the records are missing, or that they never married and were deported in 1755. If so, they never emerged elsewhere, so probably died in exile.

We also know that Julien and Charlotte probably had between another 8 and 10 children that died young. Unfortunately, this occurred often in the 1600s, and the existing church records don’t begin until mid-1703 and are incomplete.

There are reports of two churches, but I’m unclear whether both parish church records survived. Perhaps both churches were actually served by the same Priest, and there was only one register. I don’t know, but I do know that some records are missing and others are incomplete.

More War

By 1704, Acadia was under attack again by the English. Settlements and one of two churches were looted, and the dams were “dug down” supposedly as revenge for Indian attacks in New England, instigated by the French.

When Daniel d’Auger de Subercase became governor of Acadia in 1706, he went on the offensive, encouraging native raids against English targets in New England. He also encouraged the corsairs of Port-Royal, including Baptiste, in their attacks against the English colonial ships. Privateers were very effective. The English fishing fleet on the Grand Banks was reduced by 80% between 1702 and 1707, and certain English coastal communities were attacked.

In 1707, a new French governor arrived with 160 soldiers, three-quarters of whom were young men from the “quays of Paris.”

The next attack, also in 1707, was led by Massachusetts and joined by men from Rhode Island and New Hampshire, but failed. Baptiste, the Acadian’s favorite pirate, fought valiantly alongside the Acadians, successfully foiling the English in their attempted Siege of Port Royal.

Hostilities were clearly still simmering and sometimes reached a boil.

In 1708, Queen Anne’s war began, and the temperature ramped up again between the English and French.

In 1708, Fort Anne’s store was built. Additionally, the Acadians were shoring up their defenses. A new powder magazine and bombproof barracks were built, and the riverbanks were cleared to remove cover for attackers. An additional ship was built, and relationships were established with privateers who welcomed the opportunity to take English ships.

Yea, the privateers loved the Acadians too. Symbiosis.

The Big Guns!

On September 24, 1710, Port Royal was attacked again by the English who had sent five ships carrying 3400 troops. This time, the English were well prepared. In addition to 400 marines from England, Massachusetts provided 900 soldiers, Connecticut 300, and New Hampshire 100. The Iroquois were recruited as scouts.

The Province Galley, above, was one of the vessels that attacked Port Royal.

A dispatch vessel, the Chester, carried deserters from the French garrison who reported that morale was extremely low.

I wonder if the Acadiana had some idea of what was coming.

The Acadians, with their 300 troops, many of whom were poorly trained recruits from France augmenting all local able-bodied men, stood absolutely no chance, although they did manage to hold the fort for ten days before the fort fell into English hands. The Mi’kmaq and Acadians attempted to defend the settlement by firing from homes and the woods, but they were simply outgunned by warships and massively outnumbered. The soldiers were allowed to exit the fort with their dignity and their life before the British celebrated their victory will full pomp and circumstance on October 16, 1710.

That must have been an incredibly humiliating and gut-wrenching day for the Acadians. They had no idea what they would be subjected to.

The episode became known as the Siege of Port Royal and the Conquest of Acadia.

The life story of Julien’s son, Jacques Lor holds a great deal of information about this time period and the life of Julien Lor after 1700.

Confusion Reigns

After the fort and this portion of Acadia fell to the English, again, confusion reigned during the next three or four years. At first, the British required the Acadians to leave, which would have included Julien’s family. Then, after the English realized that they needed the Acadian farmers to feed them, they refused to let them leave.

The Acadians were not only confused, they were furious and characteristically stubborn. I’m sure they also realized that while they “lost,” at some level, they still had some degree of residual power which must have galled the British immensely.

In 1714, the British, thankfully, ordered a census, probably for the purpose of taxation. However, the Acadians refused to pay taxes. Now that they couldn’t leave, they wanted to and had prepared accordingly, not planting their fields. Now what were they to do?

The 1714 census shows “La Montagne” with no first name, and wife, 3 sons and 3 daughters near Port Royal. Julien’s two oldest sons Alexandre and Jacques had married and are shown next to him with their first names and LaMontagne as a last name.

In 1714 Julien’s three sons at home were Pierre, Jean-Baptiste/Louis, and Charles. Magdelaine had married Francois Amiraut and Francois Tourangeau, which could be Amiraut, with a wife was listed beside the three Montagne listings. Julien’s three daughters would be Marie, Marguerite, and another. Perhaps Anne or Magdeleine whose husbands are not shown separately were included? Or had Charlotte borne one last child around 1707 at 47 years of age?

The British also decided that the 1690 loyalty oath was inadequate, but the Acadians refused to sign a new one.

Once again, relationships were deteriorating.

In 1715, the English closed the Fort gates and the Acadians were prevented from trading with the Fort as well as with the Indians. Now, the Acadians wanted to leave, but they couldn’t.

In 1717, Captain John Doucette became the Lieutenant Governor. Doucet is a French name, but Captain Doucette did not speak French and was a career military man from England.

By this time, some Acadians had decided to stay put on peaceful terms. When the Indians learned about this, they threatened the Acadians. Though they had always been friends and many were related, the Indians didn’t want the Acadians defecting to the English side.

Doucette demanded that the Acadians take a new loyalty oath, but they thought doing so would tie them down, and they still wanted to move. They said if they were to stay, they wanted protection from the Indians, and the oath would have to be constructed so that they would not be required to fight their own countrymen. But Doucette demanded an unconditional oath. The Acadians refused.

Julien, now 65 years old, must have been chronically exhausted by this continuous conflict. And it wasn’t going to get better anytime soon.

Playing Chess

General Phillips arrived in 1720 and issued a proclamation that the Acadians must take the loyalty oath unconditionally or leave the country in three months. He also said they couldn’t sell or take any of their property with them, thinking that would force the Acadians to sign the oath. But they still refused, saying that the Indians were threatening them. When the Acadians said, “let us harvest our crops and use vehicles to carry it,” Philipps figured they were planning to take their possessions with them and denied their request.

In response, the Acadians began creating a road northeast to Minas in order to escape by land, but the governor ordered the road stopped. He was convinced that the Acadians wanted to remove their cattle which the English needed. He may well have been right. Furthermore, if all the Acadians left and made their way to Beaubassin, then a fortified French possession, it would strengthen a French colony, giving them an advantage while at the same time stripping the English colony of needed resources.

Phillips said the Acadians were stubborn and ungovernable, directed by bigoted priests. This made me laugh because I suspect that’s exactly what the Acadians wanted. If they couldn’t leave, they would make themselves a HUGE thorn in his side.

The Abenaki and Mi’kmaq continued to defend Acadia, refusing to recognize the treaty with the British, essentially handing over their lands. In 1722, they became heavily involved when Governor Doucette took 22 Mi’kmaq hostage at Annapolis Royal to prevent the capital from being attacked. In July, the Abenaki and Mi’kmaq created a blockade with the intent of starving the British in the capital. They captured 18 fishing vessels and took prisoners. Shortly thereafter, the Governor of Massachusetts officially declared war, launching Father Rale’s War. Raids continued back and forth through 1723 and 1724, when in July, 60 Mi’kmaq and Maliseets raided Annapolis Royal.

Julien would not live to see that, though, or the resolution, such as it was, in 1725.

What Happened to Julien?

Worse yet, we don’t know what happened to Julien, but clearly, something did.

Based on this entry in the parish book, Julien died between February 17th and May 3rd, 1724. It’s confounding why he had no death entry other than his name scribed in the margin as recorded in the Nova Scotia Archive.

He would have been 72 years old. Certainly not aged by today’s standards, but without modern medicine, not to mention constant strife and warfare, 72 is rather remarkable. Having said that, his death entry is baffling.

Perhaps Julien drowned, or something befell him, and there was no body recovered, so no funeral and, of course, no burial. Was he caught up in the warfare?

Why was this entry never completed? Did he die someplace on the road to Minas, or someplace else? Was he attempting to remove his family? Or, did he die someplace in the woods, his body not found, which might be why there’s no death date?

If the entry above his was made on February 17th, and the one below was made on May 3rd, surely someone knew something. They clearly knew he was dead, or his name would not have been written in the margin before the following entry. Furthermore, there is adequate space left for his entry, like someone expected it to be completed.

Why didn’t the priest who made the May 3rd entry complete Julien’s death entry? The handwriting does appear to be different. Who wrote his name in the margin?

This is an assumption, but I’d wager that this means Julien didn’t have a proper Catholic funeral, and he was not buried in consecrated ground in the churchyard. If he had been, surely the priest who performed the service would have completed the entry.

Father’s Rale’s War was underway, but the spring campaigns were taking place in New England and in Minas. If Julien was in Minas, he might have died there. In July, sixty Mi’kmaw and Maliseets raided Annapolis Royal, killing, scalping, and terrorizing the population. Three houses were burned, but Julien had been gone for at least two months by this time.

Did Julien somehow get caught in the wake of the warfare? Or did he simply die in the woods hunting? Or disappear? If so, then how did they know he was dead to make an entry in the church book?

This skeletal entry leaves so many unanswered questions.

Julien’s Y-DNA

Two men from different sons of Julien Lor have taken the Big Y-500 and Big Y-700 tests, respectively.

At the Big Y-500 level, those men were assigned to Haplogroup R-BY93943, or rather, it was assigned to them as a result of testing.

One man has already upgraded to the Big Y-700, and a test has been ordered for the second man. They will probably receive a brand-spanking-new haplogroup when the second man receives his Big Y-700 results.

This haplogroup was born when the mutation R-BY93943 occurred about 1700 CE, which correlates nicely with given the birth years of Julien’s two sons in 1675 and 1678/1679.

The incredible thing is that this haplogroup, to date, is shared ONLY by the descendants of the sons of Julien Lore, so it could well be exclusive to Julien. I live for the day when a man with a similar surname from France tests and matches Julien’s descendants. That’s how we may be able to find Julien’s family in France. It may be the only way.

The next earlier haplogroup, upstream of R-BY93943, R-CTS9881, originated about 100 BCE. Generally, we find haplogroups between a more recent and a fairly distant haplogroup, but given the restrictions against DNA testing in France, I’m not surprised.

Legacy

We will never know when, how, or why Julien obtained the nickname of LaMontagne, the mountain. It could have been because of where he lived, beneath the mountain along the river. That’s certainly possible.

It could have reflected upon his character.

It could have been a commentary on his size, especially if he was a large soldier.

It could have been a family nickname reminiscent of his mother and carried on by his comrades on that tall ship that transported him to Acadia.

Or it could simply have been a nickname conferred by his military buddies – and he’s laughing now at all this speculation.

I admire Julien’s tenacity, audacity, and spunk. I’m incredibly grateful that he signed his name for us that single time in 1690, even if it was under duress. His signature, written by his own hand, is uniquely his, incredibly personal and remains today as the only tangible item of his from his journey upon this Earth. That, and his DNA, are gifts for his descendant in generations yet to come.

I will remember Julien not only as the founder of our Lore/Lord line in Acadia, Canada, and the United States, but also as a mountain of a man carving a life for his family out of a wild, marshy, and unforgiving maritime frontier, constantly under threat, along the banks of the Rivière du Dauphin.

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Comparing DNA Results – Different Tests at the Same Testing Company

Several people have asked about different tests at the same DNA testing company. They wondered if matching is affected, meaning whether your matches are different if you have two different tests at the same company. Specifically, they asked if you are better off purchasing a test AT a DNA testing vendor that allows uploads, rather than uploading a test from a different vendor. Does it make a difference to the tester or their matches? Do they have the same matches?

These are great questions, and the answer isn’t conclusive. It varies based on several factors.

Having multiple tests at the same DNA testing company can occur in three ways:

  • The same person tests twice at the same DNA testing company.
  • The same person tests once at the DNA testing company and uploads a test from a different testing company. Only two of the primary four DNA testing companies accept uploads from other vendors – FamilyTreeDNA and MyHeritage.
  • The same person uploads two different files from other DNA testing companies to the DNA testing company in question. For example, the DNA company could be FamilyTreeDNA and the two uploaded DNA files could be from either MyHeritage, 23andMe or Ancestry.

All DNA testing companies allow users to download their raw DNA data files. This enables the tester to upload their DNA file to the vendors who accept uploaded files. Both FamilyTreeDNA and MyHeritage provide matching for free, but advanced tools require a small unlock fee of $19 and $29, respectively.

Testing Company Accepts Uploads from Other Companies Download Upload Instructions
23andMe No Instructions here
Ancestry No Instructions here
FamilyTreeDNA Yes, some Instructions here
MyHeritage Yes, some Instructions here

I wrote about developing a DNA testing and transfer/upload strategy, here, and about which companies accept which tests, here.

Not all DNA files are created equal. Therefore, not all files from vendors are compatible with other vendors for various reasons.

Multiple Tests at the Same DNA Testing Company

I have at least two tests at each of the four major vendors. I did this for research purposes, meaning to write articles to share with you.

If you actually test twice at a vendor, meaning purchase two separate tests and take them yourself, you will have two test results at that testing company. At some companies, specifically 23andMe, if you purchase a new test through their “upgrade” procedure, you won’t have two tests, just the newer one.

However, if you’re testing at the DNA testing company, and also uploading, I generally don’t recommend more than one test at each vendor. All it really does is clog up people’s match lists with no or little additional benefit. At 23andMe, with their restrictions on the size of your match list, if everyone had two tests, the effective match limit would be half of their stated limit of about 1500 matches for earlier testers and about 5000 for current testers with subscriptions.

So, in essence, I’m telling you to “do as I say, not as I do.” We all have better things to do with our money rather pay for the same test twice. If you haven’t tested your Y-DNA or mitochondrial DNA, that’s much more beneficial than two autosomal tests at one vendor.

Chips and Chip Evolution

Before we begin the side-by-side comparison, let’s briefly discuss DNA testing chips and how they work.

Each DNA testing company purchases DNA processing equipment. Illumina is the big dog in this arena. Illumina defines the capacity and structure of each chip. In part, how the testing companies use that capacity, or space on each chip, is up to each company. This means that the different testing companies test many of the same autosomal DNA SNP locations, but not all of the same locations.

Furthermore, the individual testing companies can specify a number of “other” locations to be included on their chip, up to the chip maximum size limit. The testing companies who offer Y-DNA or mitochondrial DNA haplogroups from autosomal tests use part of their chip array space for selected known haplogroup-defining SNP locations. This does NOT mean that Y-DNA or mitochondrial DNA is autosomal, just that the testing company used part of their chip array space to target these SNPs in your genome. Of course, for your most refined haplogroup and Y-DNA or mitochondrial DNA matching, you have to take those specific tests at FamilyTreeDNA .

This means that each testing company includes and reports many of the same, but also some different SNP locations when they scan your DNA.

In the lab, after your DNA is extracted from either your saliva or the cheek swab, it’s placed on this array chip which is then placed in the processing equipment.

There are several steps in processing your DNA. Each DNA location specified on the chip is scanned and read multiple times, and the results are recorded. The final output is the raw DNA results file that you see if/when you download your raw DNA file.

Here’s an example from my file. The RSID is the reference SNP cluster ID which is the naming convention used for specific SNPs. It’s not relevant to you, but it is to the lab, along with the chromosome number and position, which is in essence the address on the chromosome.

In the Result column, your file reports one nucleotide (T, A, C or G) that you inherited from each parent at each tested position. They are not listed in “parent order” because your DNA is not organized in that fashion. There’s no way for the lab to know which nucleotide came from which parent, unless they are the same, of course. You can read about nucleotides, here.

When you upload your raw DNA file to a different DNA testing company (vendor), they have to work with a file that isn’t entirely compatible with the files they generate, or the other files uploaded from other DNA testing companies.

In addition to dealing with different file formats and contents from multiple DNA vendors, companies change their own chips and file structure from time to time. In some cases, it’s a forced change by the chip manufacturer. Other times, the vendors want to include different locations or make improvements. For example, with 23andMe’s focus on health, they probably add new medically related SNP locations regularly. Regardless of why, some DNA files include locations not included in other files and are not 100% compatible.

Looking at the first few entries in my example file above, let’s say that the testing vendor included the first ten positions, but an uploaded file from another company did not. Or perhaps the chip changed, and a different version of the company’s own file contains different positions.

DNA testing companies have to “fill in the blanks” for compatibility, and they do this using a technique called imputation. Illumina forced their customers to adopt imputation in 2017 when they dropped the capacity of their chip. I was initially quite skeptical, but imputation has worked surprisingly well. Some of the matching differences you will see when comparing the results of two different DNA files is a result of imputation.

I wrote about imputation in an early article here. Please note the companies have fixed many issues with imputation and improved matching greatly, but the concepts and imputation processes still apply. The downloaded raw data files are your results BEFORE imputation, meaning that it’s up to any company where you upload to process your raw file in the same way they would process a file that they generated. A lot goes on behind the scenes when you upload a file to a DNA testing company.

At both 23andMe and Ancestry, you know that all of your matches tested there, meaning they did not upload a file from another testing company. You don’t know and can’t tell what chip was utilized when your matches tested. The only way to determine a chip testing version, aside from knowing the date or remembering the chip version from when you tested, is to look at the beginning of the raw data download file, although not all files contain that information.

Ok, now that you understand the landscape, let’s look at my results at each company.

23andMe

I tested twice at 23andMe on two different chip versions, V3 and V4, which tested some different locations of my DNA. Neither of these chips is the current version. I originally tested twice to evaluate the differences between the two test versions which you can read about, here.

23andMe named their ethnicity results Ancestry Composition.

They last updated my V3 test’s Ancestry Composition results on July 28, 2021.

The percentages are shown at left, and the country locations are highlighted at right for my 23andMe V3 test.

Click to enlarge any graphic

The 23andMe V4 test was also updated for the last time on July 28, 2021.

The ethnicity results differ substantially between the two chip versions, even though they were both updated on the same date.

In October of 2020, in an effort to “encourage” their customers to pay for a new test on their V5 chip, 23andMe announced that there would be no ethnicity updates on older tests. So, I really don’t know for sure when my tests were actually updated. Just note how different the results are. It’s also worth mentioning that 23andMe does not show trace amounts on their map, so even though my Indigenous American results were found, they aren’t displayed on the map.

Indigenous is, however, shown in yellow on their DNA Chromosome Painting.

No other testing company restricts updates, penalizing their customers who purchased earlier versions of tests.

Matches at 23andMe

23andMe limits your matches to about 1500 unless you have purchased the current test, including health AND pay for an annual $69 subscription which buys you about 5000 matches. I have not purchased this test.

Your number of actual matches displayed/retained is also affected by how many people you have communicated with, or at least initiated communications with. 23andMe does not roll those people off of your match list.

I have 1803 matches on both of my tests, meaning I’ve reached out to about 300 people who would have otherwise been removed from my match list. 23andMe retains your highest matches, deleting lower matches after you reach the maximum match threshold.

I’ve randomly evaluated several of the same matches at each vendor, at least five maternal and five paternal, separated by a blank row. I wanted to determine whether they match me on the same number of centimorgans, meaning the same amount of DNA, on both tests, and the same number of segments.

Match 23and Me V3 23and Me V4
Patricia 292 cM – 12 segments Same as V3
Joe 148 cM, 8 segments Same
Emily 73 cM, 4 segs 72 cM, 4 seg
Roland 27 cM, 1 seg Same
Ian 62 cM, 4 seg Same
Stacy 469 cM, 16 segments 482 cM, 16 segments
Harold 134 cM, 6 segments Same
Dean 69 cM, 3 seg Same
Carl 95 cM, 4 seg Same
Debbie 83 cM, 4 seg 84 cM, 4 seg

As you can see, the matches are either exact or xclose.

Please note that bolded matches are also found at another company. I will include a summary table at the end comparing the same match across multiple vendors.

23and Me Summary

The 23andMe V3 and V4 match results are very close. Since the match limit is the same, and the results are so close between tests, they are essentially identical in terms of matching.

The ethnicity results are similar, but the V4 test reflects a broader region. Italian baffles me in both versions.

Ethnicity should never be taken at face value at any DNA testing company, especially with smaller percentages which could be noise or a combination of other regions which just happens to resemble Italy, in my case.

I don’t know what type of comparison the current chip would yield since I suspect it has more medical and less genealogical SNPs on board.

Reprocessing Tests

This is probably a good place to note that it’s very expensive for any company to update their customer’s ethnicity results because every single customer’s DNA results file must be completely rerun. Note that this does not mean their DNA itself is retested. The output raw data file is reprocessed using a new algorithm.

Rerunning means reprocessing that specific portion of every test, meaning the vendors must rent “time in the cloud.” We are talking millions of dollars for each run. I don’t know how much it costs per test, but think about the expense if it takes $1 to rerun each test in the vendor’s database. Ancestry has more than 20 million tests.

While we, as consumers, are always chomping at the bit for new and better ethnicity results – the testing companies need to be sure it really is “better,” not just different before they invest the money to reprocess and update results.

This is probably why 23andMe decided to cease updating older kits. The newer tests require a subscription which is recurring revenue.

The same is true when DNA testing companies need to rematch their entire user base. This happens when the criteria for matching changes. For example, Ancestry purged a large number of matches for all of their customers back in 2020. While match algorithm changes necessitate rematching, with associated costs, this change also provided Ancestry with the huge benefit of eliminating approximately half of their customer’s matches. This freed up storage space, either physically in their data center or space rented in the cloud, representing substantial cost-savings.

How long can a DNA testing company reasonably be expected to continue investing in a product which never generates additional revenue but for which the maintenance and reinvestment costs never end?

Ancestry and MyHeritage both hope to offset the expenses of maintaining their customer’s DNA tests and providing free updates by selling subscriptions to their record services. 23andMe wants you to purchase a new test and a yearly subscription. FamilyTreeDNA wants you to purchase a Big Y-DNA and mitochondrial DNA test.

OK, now let’s look at my matches at Ancestry.

Ancestry

I’ve taken two Ancestry tests, V1 and V2. There were some differences, which I wrote about here and here. V2 is no longer the current chip.

Except for 23andMe who wants their customers to purchase their most current test, the other companies no longer routinely announce new chip versions. They just go about their business. The only way you know that a vendor actually changed something is when the other companies who accept uploads suddenly encounter an issue with file formats. It always takes a few weeks to sort that out.

My Ancestry V1 test’s ethnicity results don’t show my Native American ethnicity.

Ancestry results were updated in June 2022

However, my V2 results do include Native American ethnicity.

Matches at Ancestry

I have many more matches on my V1 test at Ancestry because I took steps to preserve my smaller matches when Ancestry initiated its massive purge in 2020. I wrote about that here and here.

Ancestry’s SideView breaks matches down into maternal, paternal, and unassigned based on your side selection. You tell Ancestry which side is which. You may be able to determine which “side” is maternal or paternal either by your ethnicity or shared matches. While SideView is not always accurate, it’s a good place to begin.

Match Category Ancestry V1 Test Ancestry V2 Test
Maternal 15,587 15,116
Paternal 42,247 41,870
Both 2 2
Unassigned 48,999 4,127
Total 106,835 61,115

Ancestry either displays all your matches or your matches by side, which I used to compile the table above. I suspect that Ancestry is not assigning any of the smaller preserved matches to “sides” based on the numbers above.

Ancestry implemented a process called Timber that removes DNA that they feel is “too matchy,” meaning you match enough people in this region that they think it’s a pileup region for you personally, and therefore not useful. In some cases, enough DNA is removed causing that person to no longer be considered a match because they fall beneath the match threshold. I am not a fan of Timber.

Your match amount shown is AFTER Timber has removed those segments. Unweighted shared DNA is your pre-Timber match amount.

You can view the Unweighted shared DNA by clicking on the amount of shared DNA on your match list.

You can read Ancestry’s Matching White Paper, here.

Let’s take a look at my matches. I’ve listed both weighted and unweighted where they are different.

Match Ancestry V1 Ancestry V2
Michael 755 cM, 35 seg 737 cM, 33 seg
Edward 66 cM, 4 seg (unweighted 86 cM) 65 cM, 4 seg (unweighted 86 cM)
Tom 59 cM, 3 seg (unweighted 63) Same
Jonathon 43 cM, 4 seg, (unweighted 52 cM) Same
Matthew 20 cM, 2 seg (unweighted 35 cM) Same
Harold 132 cM, 7 seg 135 cM, 6 seg
Dean 67 cM, 4 seg (unweighted 78 cM) 66 cM, 4 seg (unweighted 78 cM)
Debbie 93 cM, 5 seg Same
Valli 142 cM, 3 seg Same
Jared 20 cM, 1 seg (unweighted 22 cM) Same

Timber only removes DNA when the match is under 90 cM. Almost every match under 90 cM has some DNA removed.

Ancestry Summary

The results of the two Ancestry tests are very close.

In some circumstances, no DNA is removed by Timber, so the unweighted is the same as the weighted. However, in other cases, a significant amount is removed. 15 cM of Matthew’s 35 cM was removed by Timber, reducing his total to 20 cM.

Remember that Ancestry does not show shared matches unless they are greater than 20 cM, which is different than any other DNA testing company.

At one point, Ancestry was selling a health test that was also a genealogy test. That test utilized a different chip that is not accepted for uploads by other vendors. The results of that test might well be different that the “normal” Ancestry tests focused on genealogy. The Ancestry health test is no longer offered.

Companies that Accept Uploads

DNA testing companies that accept uploaded DNA files from other DNA testing companies need to process the uploaded file, just like a file that is generated in their own lab. Of course, they must deal with the differences between uploaded files and their own file format. The processing includes imputation and formulates the uploaded file so that it works with the tools that they provide for their customers, including ethnicity (by whatever name they use) matching, family matching (bucketing), advanced matching, the match matrix, triangulation, AutoClusters, Theories of Family Relativity, and other advanced tools.

Of course, the testing company accepting uploads can only work with the DNA locations provided by the original DNA testing company in the uploaded file.

Matching and some additional tools are free to uploaders, but advanced tools require an inexpensive unlock.

FamilyTreeDNA

I took a test at FamilyTreeDNA, plus uploaded a copy of both of my Ancestry DNA files.

FamilyTreeDNA named their population (ethnicity) test myOrigins and the current version is V3. I wrote about the rollout and comparison in September of 2020, here.

My DNA test taken at FamilyTreeDNA, above, reveals Native American segments that match reference populations found both in North and South America and the Caribbean Islands.

At FamilyTreeDNA, my Ancestry V1 uploaded file results show Native American population matches only in North America.

Interestingly, my Ancestry V1 file processed AT Ancestry did not reveal Native American ancestry, but the same file uploaded to and processed at FamilyTreeDNA did show Native American results, reflecting the difference between the vendors’ internal algorithms and reference populations utilized.

My myOrigins results from my Ancestry V2 uploaded file at FamilyTreeDNA also include my North American Native American segments. The V2 test also showed Native American ethnicity at Ancestry, so clearly something changed in Ancestry’s algorithm, locations tested, and/or reference populations between V1 and V2.

Fortunately, FamilyTreeDNA provides both chromosome painting and a population download file so I can match those Native segments with my autosomal matches to identify which of my ancestors contributed those specific segments.

One of my Native segments is shown in pink on Chromosome1. My mother has a Native segment in exactly the same location, so I know that this segment originated with my mother’s ancestors.

I downloaded the myOrigins population segment file and painted my results at DNAPainter, along with the matches where I can identify our common ancestor. This allowed me to pinpoint the ancestral line that contributed this Native segment in my maternal line. You can read about using DNAPainter, here.

FamilyTreeDNA Matches

I have significantly more matches at FamilyTreeDNA on their test than on either of my Ancestry tests that I uploaded. However, nearly the same number are maternally or paternally assigned through Family Matching, with the remainder unassigned. You can read about Family Matching here.

Match Category FamilyTreeDNA Test Ancestry V1 at FamilyTreeDNA Ancestry V2 at FamilyTreeDNA
Paternal 3,479 3,572 3,422
Maternal 1,549 1,536 1,477
Both 3 3 3
All 8,154 6,397 6,579

Family matching, aka bucketing, automatically assigns my matches as maternal and paternal by linking known relatives to their place in my tree.

I completed the following match chart using my original test taken at FamilyTreeDNA, plus the same match at FamilyTreeDNA for both of my Ancestry tests.

In other words, Cheryl matched me at 467 cM on 21 segments on the original test taken at FamilyTreeDNA. She matched me on 473 cM and 21 segments on my Ancestry V1 test uploaded to FamilyTreeDNA and on 483 cM and 22 segments on the Ancestry V2 test uploaded to FamilyTreeDNA.

Match FamilyTreeDNA Ancestry V1 at FTDNA Ancestry V2 at FTDNA
Cheryl 467 cM, 21 seg 473 cM, 21 seg 483 cM, 22 seg
Patricia 195 cM, 11 seg 189 cM, 11 seg 188 cM, 11 seg
Tom 77 cM, 4 seg 71 cM, 4 seg 76 cM, 4 seg
Thomas 72 cM, 3 seg 71 cM, 3 seg 74 cM, 3 seg
Roland 29 cM, 1 seg 35 cM, 2 seg 35 cM, 2 seg
Rex 62 cM, 4 seg 55 cM, 3 seg 57 cM, 3 seg
Don 395 cM, 18 seg 362 cM, 15 seg 398 cM, 18 seg
Ian 64 cM, 4 seg 56 cM, 4 seg 64 cM, 4 seg
Stacy 490 cM, 18 seg 494 cM, 15 seg 489 cM, 14 seg
Harold 127 cM, 5 cM 133 cM, 6 seg 143 cM, 6 seg
Dean 81 cM, 4 seg 75 cM, 3 seg 83 cM, 4 seg
Carl 103 cM, 4 seg 101 cM, 4 seg 102 cM, 4 seg
Debbie 99 cM, 5 seg 97 cM, 5 seg 99 cM, 5 seg
David 373 cM, 16 seg 435 cM, 19 seg 417 cM, 18 seg
Amos 176 cM, 7 seg 177 cM. 8 seg 177 cM, 7 seg
Buster 387 cM, 15 seg 396 cM, 16 seg 402 cM, 17 seg
Charlene 461 cM, 21 seg 450 cM, 21 seg 448 cM, 20 seg
Carol 65 cM, 6 seg 64 cM, 6 seg 65 cM, 6 seg

I have tested many of my cousins at FamilyTreeDNA and encouraged others to test or upload. I’ve attempted to include enough people so that I can have common matches at least at one other DNA testing company for comparison.

FamilyTreeDNA Summary

The matches are relatively close, with a few being exact.

Interestingly, some of the segment counts are different. In most cases, this results from one segment being broken into multiple segments by one or more of the tests, but not always. In the couple that I checked, the entire segment seems to descend from the same ancestral couple, so the break is likely a result of not all of the same DNA locations being tested, plus the limits of imputation.

MyHeritage

I have two tests at MyHeritage. One taken at MyHeritage, and an uploaded file from FamilyTreeDNA.

MyHeritage displays both ethnicity results and Genetic Groups which maps groups of people that you match. I left the Genetic Groups setting at the highest confidence level. Shifting it to lower displays additional Genetic Groups, some of which overlap with or are within ethnicity regions.

My test taken at MyHeritage, above, shows several ethnicities and Genetic Groups, but no Native American.

My FamilyTreeDNA kit processed at MyHeritage shows the same ethnicity regions, one additional Genetic Group, plus Native American heritage in the Amazon which is rather surprising given that I don’t show Native in North American regions where I’m positive my Native ancestors lived.

MyHeritage Matching

At MyHeritage, I compared the results of the test I took with MyHeritage, and a test I uploaded from FamilyTreeDNA. Fewer than half of my matches can be assigned to a parent via shared matching.

Matches MyHeritage Test FamilyTreeDNA at MyHeritage
Paternal 4,422 6,501
Maternal 2,660 3,655
Total 13,233 16,147

I have rounded my matches at MyHeritage to the closest cM.

Match MyHeritage Test FamilyTreeDNA at MyHeritage
Michael 801 cM, 32 seg 823 cM, 31 segments
Cheryl 467 cM, 23 seg 477 cM, 23 seg
Roland No match 28 cM, 1 seg
Patty 156 cM, 9 seg 151 cM, 9 seg
Rex 43 cM, 4 seg 53 cM, 3 seg
Don 369 cM, 16 seg 382 cM, 17 seg
 
David 449 cM, 17 seg 460 cM, 17 seg
Charlene 454 cM, 23 seg 477 cM, 24 seg
Buster 408 cM, 15 seg 410 cM, 16 seg
Amos 183 cM, 8 seg Same
Carol 78 cM, 6 seg 87 cM, 7 seg

MyHeritage Summary

I was surprised to discover that Roland had no match with the MyHeritage test, but did with the FamilyTreeDNA test. I wonder if this is a searching or matching glitch, especially since both companies use the same chip. 28 cM in one segment is a reasonably large match, and even if it was divided in two, it would still be over the matching threshold. I know this is a valid match because Roland triangulates with me and several cousins, I’m positive of our common ancestor, and he also matches me at both FamilyTreeDNA and 23andMe.

Other than that, the matches are reasonably close, with one being exact.

Your Matches Aren’t Everyplace

I unsuccessfully searched for someone who was a match to me in all four databases. Ancestry does not permit match downloads, so I had to search manually. People don’t always use the same names in different databases.

Surprisingly, I was unable to find one match who is in all of the databases. Many people only suggest testing at Ancestry because they have the largest database, but if you look at the following comparison chart that I’ve created, you’ll see that 16 of 26 people, or 62% were not at Ancestry. Conversely, many people were at Ancestry and not elsewhere. I could not find five maternal and five paternal matches at Ancestry that I could identify as matches in another database. 40% were not elsewhere.

If you think for one minute that it doesn’t matter for genealogy if you’re in all four major databases, please reconsider. It surely does matter.

Every single vendor has matches that the others don’t. Substantial, important matches. I have found first and second-cousin matches in every database that weren’t elsewhere.

Many of the original testers have passed away and can’t test again. My mother can never test at either 23andMe or Ancestry, but she is at both FamilyTreeDNA and MyHeritage because I could upgrade her kit at FamilyTreeDNA after she died. I uploaded her to MyHeritage. Of course, because she is a generation closer to our ancestors, she has many valuable matches that I don’t.

Each vendor provides either an email address or a messaging platform for you to contact your matches. Don’t be discouraged if they don’t answer. Just today, I received a reply that was years in the making.

Genealogists hope for immediate gratification, but we are actually in this for the long game. Play it with every tool at your disposal.

The Answer

Does it matter if you test at a DNA testing company, or upload a file?

I know this was a very long answer to what my readers hoped was a simple yes or no question.

There is no consistent answer at either FamilyTreeDNA or MyHeritage, the two DNA testing companies that accept uploads. Be sure you’re in both databases. My closest two matches that I did not test were found at MyHeritage. Here’s a direct link to upload at MyHeritage.

Of the vendors, those two should be the closest to each other because they are both processed in the GenebyGene lab, but again, the actual chip version, when the test was originally taken, and each vendor’s internal processing will result in differences. Neither the original test at the DNA testing company nor the uploaded files have consistently higher or lower matches. Neither type of test or upload appears to be universally more or less accurate. Differences in either direction seem to occur on a match-by-match basis. Many are so close as to be virtually equivalent, with a few seemingly random exceptions. Of course, we always have to consider Timber.

If you upload, unlock the advanced features at both FamilyTreeDNA and MyHeritage.

If you upload to a DNA testing company, you may discover in the future that some features and functions will only be available to original testers.

Personally, if I had the option, I would test at the company directly simply because it eliminates or at least reduces the possibility of future incompatibilities – with the exception of 23andMe which has chosen to not provide consistent updates to older tests. I’m incredibly grateful I didn’t test my mother or now deceased family members at 23andMe, and only there. I would be heartsick, heartbroken, and furious.

Our DNA is an extremely valuable resource for our genealogy. It’s the gift that truly keeps on giving, day after day, even when other records don’t exist. Be sure you and your family members are in each database one way or another, and test your Y-DNA (for males) and mitochondrial DNA (for everyone) to have a complete arsenal at your disposal.

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